V85TT Chatter/Pinging?

[Antiquar]

Yesterday evening I had the misfortune to do some stop n go city riding on my E5 V85TT. It was evening, but still fairly warm 80F/85F+. After a few minutes in stop n go, with the bike being very hot, the bike will make some kind of chatter when pulling away from a stop. Would happen more under heavier load--going uphill for example. It reminded me of detonation, but I'm not sure--I'm used to detonation when loading some throttle when hot with too few revs. I've heard it once or twice on the v85 but more so on my old v11 sport.

I searched the internet and it sounds like other V85s have had this issue. Anyone have any ideas or fixes?

I have a mistral exhaust and a full exhaust map uploaded through the UpMap device. Definitely made the bike a bit zippier. You can smell more fuel in the idle exhaust, so I would expect it to run a bit cooler with these mods.

[guzzisteve]

Sounds like your upmap tune isn't enough for hot L coast traffic.

[egschade]

What octane gas are you using? My V85 E4 will ping in the heat on anything less than premium.

[Antiquar]

What octane gas are you using? My V85 E4 will ping in the heat on anything less than premium.

I always hit the premium button but who knows the actual quality. I did fill from a different station before I had the worst pinging...

There is 'race fuel' at a station near me, I might try it as a test. Just need to verify there are no harmful additives first.

[guzzisteve]

I would cut the race fuel 50% with premium. I did that with Avgas for LM3

[tommy2cyl]

A friend of mine has a V 85 and lives in Colorado.  He was having a complaint of pinging for quite some time but did not seem to correlate
much with altitude change or temperature.  In the end he discovered that the exhaust heat shields had vibrated a crack around the bolt head and was
vibrating at certain RPM's, and he interpreted the noise as pinging.  My heat shields did the same thing and I have replaced with aftermarket product.
Mine made an awful rattle as well but I never thought of it as pinging.  Worth checking.

[egschade]

A friend of mine has a V 85 and lives in Colorado.  He was having a complaint of pinging for quite some time but did not seem to correlate
much with altitude change or temperature.  In the end he discovered that the exhaust heat shields had vibrated a crack around the bolt head and was
vibrating at certain RPM's, and he interpreted the noise as pinging.  My heat shields did the same thing and I have replaced with aftermarket product.
Mine made an awful rattle as well but I never thought of it as pinging.  Worth checking.

Good point. I wasn't getting a pinging but more of a harmonic buzz. Turns out the main skid plate was touching the cross over pipe. A couple washers  between the plate and mount gave enough clearance and the buzz went away.

[Antiquar]

A friend of mine has a V 85 and lives in Colorado.  He was having a complaint of pinging for quite some time but did not seem to correlate
much with altitude change or temperature.  In the end he discovered that the exhaust heat shields had vibrated a crack around the bolt head and was
vibrating at certain RPM's, and he interpreted the noise as pinging.  My heat shields did the same thing and I have replaced with aftermarket product.
Mine made an awful rattle as well but I never thought of it as pinging.  Worth checking.

Good suggestion, I'll double check for that. They are pretty flimsy. What aftermarket piece did you get, by the way?

[tommy2cyl]

MyTech LH & RH Header Tube Guards-Black  $108.99 & MyTech Sump Guard- Black $139.99.
Find them at AF! Racing Austin/ Moto Guzzi V 85 parts exhaust accessories.  I like them.  Quality product.

[tommy2cyl]

Oops.  Look under Crash Protection.  That's where you will find them.

[Antiquar]

I would cut the race fuel 50% with premium. I did that with Avgas for LM3

I filled it up with that proportion. We'll see next time it's real hot out!

Too bad avgas isn't good for the lambda probes, otherwise I'd do that next time I go flying. Ironically 100LL prices here are cheaper than the 'race gas'.

[Antiquar]

Took the V85TT out for a ride this evening through city and mountains. Tank full of 50/50 premium/race gas. Still quite hot, 90F-100F. No pinging as far as I could discern, including stop n go. So I will conclude the pinging was a combo of poor quality gas and potentially the aftermarket exhaust. That said, the exhaust smell is significantly richer with this UpMap tune than stock.

The bike was definitely running hot, my legs were cooking, but no pinging.

The left cylinder seems to be working harder--the left header right by the exhaust manifold is significantly more blued than the right side. Infrared thermo showed something like a max 20F delta on the rocker covers. No evidence of an exhaust or intake leak, and the bike is running great, so I'm inclined to leave it alone and ride the thing for now.

[twowheeladdict]

Took the V85TT out for a ride this evening through city and mountains. Tank full of 50/50 premium/race gas. Still quite hot, 90F-100F. No pinging as far as I could discern, including stop n go. So I will conclude the pinging was a combo of poor quality gas and potentially the aftermarket exhaust. That said, the exhaust smell is significantly richer with this UpMap tune than stock.

The bike was definitely running hot, my legs were cooking, but no pinging.

The left cylinder seems to be working harder--the left header right by the exhaust manifold is significantly more blued than the right side. Infrared thermo showed something like a max 20F delta on the rocker covers. No evidence of an exhaust or intake leak, and the bike is running great, so I'm inclined to leave it alone and ride the thing for now.

Are you running a full exhaust?  Or do you still have the Cat?  Running a richer mixture with the Cat might create more heat of any unburnt fuel gets into it. 

I have never replaced exhaust on a motorcycle until 2020 when I replaced the mufflers on the V7III.  Now I am considering a full system on the V85TT to get ride of the Cat and the heat it puts out. 

[Antiquar]

Are you running a full exhaust?  Or do you still have the Cat?  Running a richer mixture with the Cat might create more heat of any unburnt fuel gets into it. 

I have never replaced exhaust on a motorcycle until 2020 when I replaced the mufflers on the V7III.  Now I am considering a full system on the V85TT to get ride of the Cat and the heat it puts out.

I have a full Mistral system but it does contain a small cat element by the muffler connection (at the joint of the Y pipe). It is pretty cool back there, so I don't think that's an issue for the heat at the header. No blueing goes farther than ~2 inches from the exhaust manifold--rest of the pipe is the nice bronze exhaust color.

[twowheeladdict]

 

[gregorm1503]

Hi
I am reaching you out because I've been experiencing the same persistent knocking /detonation/preignition problem with my TT E5 (in warranty), even after the latest ECU updates, using quality gasoline, having the valves set up multiple times, mistral/upmaps also not helps as per my research,... In my case issue seems to be isolated to the left cylinder.
There are many of us with this problem. Many others probably didnt meet specific condition yet..
I conducted a thorough research and find no solution. It appears that individual attempts will not not yield a resolution and result in wasted resources.
Im in contact with Piaggio who perform data collecting and analysis to get possible solution.
Its perfect time to be involved and share your bike data for compariosn etc..
So im inviting you to contact me to share with you findings and how and with what to contact Piaggio to path direction to solution.. to collective solution that benefits everyone facing a similar challenge.
If you have original setups even better, otherwise it is to expect that there will be some comments but Mistral claims that they are no problems even in warranty claims

So, contact me for few directions if you are sure that you have knocking, you accepting it as an technical error and you can not live with it...

Starting sounds to identify the case, with a bit warmer engine and within healthy rpms from 2.500 - 3.500:
https://youtube.com/shorts/d83BtkgNz64
From 19" frwrd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rjnvl0osIo&t=28s

[MattP]

 lower the compreshin simple shim , I don,t think you wil notice any loss of useable power. race gass? how bout watter injection that dos work .problem with these new engines are running right at the ragged edge with varry little margin of saftey   heat  load  ect.

[azccj]

MyTech LH & RH Header Tube Guards-Black  $108.99 & MyTech Sump Guard- Black $139.99.
Find them at AF! Racing Austin/ Moto Guzzi V 85 parts exhaust accessories.  I like them.  Quality product.

I have the same upgrades gotten from the same place.

I don't know what idiots at MG thought attaching supper thin aluminum exhaust guards onto the super vibby exhaust pipes is a good idea, but it's not. I would guess that every single set of these OEM guards will crack within a certain amount of miles. I replaced mine with the My Tech ones. Much thicker aluminum and hopefully much less likely to crack.

[ridingron]

I have the same upgrades gotten from the same place.

I don't know what idiots at MG thought attaching supper thin aluminum exhaust guards onto the super vibby exhaust pipes is a good idea, but it's not. I would guess that every single set of these OEM guards will crack within a certain amount of miles. I replaced mine with the My Tech ones. Much thicker aluminum and hopefully much less likely to crack.

What was the approximate mileage when yours cracked? Thanks.

[azccj]

What was the approximate mileage when yours cracked? Thanks.

Mine hadn't cracked yet but I knew they would sooner than later, so I replaced mine with the My Tech ones at about 3,000 miles.  How long has MG been making the V85tt? Are they still installing the same fragile header pipe covers 5 years later?

From my own experience and what has been posted on this very forum, I can say MG has a long history of making flimsy, not well thought out parts that they like bolt to their very vibby motors. Or they make parts that aren't durable enough to reasonably last. My Norge that I bought new back in 2008 destroyed it's lower body work in 2,000 miles. The first time it happened MG replaced the lower fairing with the same poorly designed parts. Then they made up a new rule and said body parts weren't included in the warranty. The Norge's headlight assembly melted on the inside, it's gas tank formed pimples on the outside, and there was the Startus Interruptus issue. My 1999 V11EV quickly destroyed both of it's throttle body covers and cracked it's windshield at every single mounting hole in the windshield, and the rear wheel ate most of the rear drive's output splines.

MG is good at what I call showroom design work. They design bikes that look good in the showrooms but after a few thousand miles on the road the poor design of some of the parts, which aren't up to the task, start to crack/break/burn/deform or prematurely wear out. I've owned several Guzzis in the past so I knew what I was getting into when I bought my V85tt last year. Sometimes the heart just wants what it's wants even when the brain keeps thinking, is this really a good idea. So far in 9,000 miles my V85 has been very reliable. Hopefully that will continue for many more miles and many more years.

[tommy2cyl]

My heat shields failed at 13,000 miles or so, and replace with MyTech as noted in thread.  My first tall windshield starting cracking
around the holes and was replaced under warranty.  However, on the second windshield I used rubber bushings and did not tighten
as tightly.  So far so good on the second windscreen.

[gregorm1503]

========= Update 01/2024 ==== SOLUTION to V85TT knocking (for my case) ======================
Following the weekend test, it appears that the solution Piaggio and their technician experts offered has successfully addressed the engine knocking issue, and I am optimistic that this case can now be considered closed.
CAUSE (by Piaggio): Throttle body dirt and injectors out of the range
SOLUTION (by Piaggio): Clean the throttle body and after that to reset all the injection system parameters to match perfectly with the standards
ATTENTION! (my remarks): Airbox poor design.
TT Airbox problem in details; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyde53V2YBw&t=347s
My airbox after 300km, (see outer frame);  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AstB64mlyhU
Poor desigh, dirt&bented walls: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YOObfMn1o24

PS: Also couple of TT fellows share experience and success with changing or tightening duct clamps (3)


=====================================================================

[janguzzi]

Clamp No 10 should also be checked, mine was loose.

I am still hoping that the 2024 models have a better airbox and that parts can be interchanged.
The latest mappings also solve most pinging issues, here is an overview:
https://www.mgcn.nl/database/overzicht-mappings (in Dutch)