Interesting oily video

[faffi]

If you cannot be arsed to watch it all, at least watch from the 26 min mark and till the end


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_Gt0yPlO0

[bmc5733946]

Maybe you could just give us his conclusion instead of us watching the whole thing or even any of it.

Brian

[kingoffleece]

Conclusion: don't use any

[michaell32]

Personally I feel he invalidated his results when he added 3 gallons of fresh oil throughout the test.  If there was wear metals in the oil, he would never know because he dumped and refilled nearly twice as much oil as the engine holds and then collected an oil sample.

[Moparnut72]

The methodology was totally bogus. Scientifically flawed for any valid conclusion. Don't bother watching.
kk

[guzziart]

 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I endured until he said "bearings don't take out engines." I have encountered empirical data that says otherwise!

Call it confirmation bias, but I liked The Motor Oil Geek's video on the topic better and it makes plenty of sense that without pre-filling the oil filter it takes longer for the engine to build oil pressure immediately after an oil change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=939WTeorBnQ

Whether or not that results in significant wear over the life of oil changes the engine goes through, that's the harder point to prove and can vary based on engine design. It only takes me a few seconds to pre-fill a filter and not need to worry either way, so that's how I do it.

[Moparnut72]

I have a diesel Ram. To get the filter through the small passage way it has to be horizontal, It is hard enough to go though the hole and past and past the two hard lines without oil draining out of a pre-filled filter. Oil pressure is restored quite quickly.
kk

[pehayes]

Subaru has the oil filter on top of the engine in a vertical inverted position.  Very convenient for servicing.  How do you hold oil in an inverted filter prior to installation?  I suppose I could fill the filter and then invert it over the filler neck to drain most into the engine.  Sounds like a recipe for a mess.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[bmc5733946]

I've probably said this before but here goes. I attended a tech seminar where a fella from Caterpillar said prefilling filters was dangerous and futile. Dangerous, because it was probable that dirt would get in the oil in the filter during the installation process, then get through the engine before getting filtered. Futile because everytime the engine is started it runs for several moments without oil pressure. He recommended preventing engine start up by cutting off fuel and cranking till oil pressure is attained. Many pieces of equipment and heavy trucks have a shut off solenoid that can be unplugged to accomplish this. He also said if you are very worried about this one could install a pre oiling system, available many places, that holds oil under pressure after engine shut off and releases some at start up. Problem with that is how to change the oil in the pressure reservoir and still maintain pressure at start up. As always ymmv.

Brian

[guzziart]

Most of my junk is easy enough to crank engine until oil pressure is achieved (light go out or gage budges) before starting.  On the upside down on the Subie filter, I start the engine and hopefully the idiot (me) watching the idiot light observes the light going out in short order...othwise I suppose I'd sit there and ponder about what I may have did wrong or neglected to do.  Anyway, I don't intend to change the way I've been doing oil filter replacement tasks, this old dog can't be taught new tricks and can barely rememeber the old ones.

Probably cost that dude a small fortune for oil analysis.  I hate spending $25-$35 every time I do it, Youtube must pay well:laugh:

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

On the Subaru if you hold the gas pedal to the floor and turn the key to start it will crank without the fuel or ignition system running, which is how you are supposed to build oil pressure before starting after an oil change with the filter where prefilling goes against gravity. Like bmc5733946 mentions, there are ways to do this on many engines with upside down filters. If there isn't and you can't install a pre-filled filter without making a mess, then that answers the question and you just don't pre-fill it. At the least you should follow the service manual's instructions which tend to direct you to oil the o-ring on the new filter.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Manufacturers often even provide the pre-fill recommendation. Here it is from Piaggio/Aprilia for the Tuono V4:
"Insert and screw the new engine oil filter in the seat, filling the filter to 1/3 of its capacity with engine oil before fitting."

Page 70
https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/233369/files/369291058/aprilia-tuono-v4-1100-rr-factory-e4-eu-usa-asia-20.pdf

[guzziart]

On the Subaru if you hold the gas pedal to the floor and turn the key to start it will crank without the fuel or ignition system running, which is how you are supposed to build oil pressure before starting after an oil change with the filter where prefilling goes against gravity.

Yeah, I do that on the '08 Wing but don't know it'll work on newer "push button" start subies....left foot brake, right foot pedal to the metal, right index finger on push button.....who knows what the ecm is thinking.  I aint gonna worry about, aint none these blown up on me in the decade plus I've been changing oil on 'em.  On the other hand I get rid of them before they hit 80k miles or less.  idk.  Maybe next OC on subie I'll try the 3 limb oil pressure build technique or next time I go out to the car try to get it to crank & not start or I could do it now if weren't so lazy.

What do the quicky oil change places do?

Art

1/15/25 Update:  '25 Subie push button start will crank & crank & crank when brake & accelerator are pressed & held after start button is pushed.  Once the accelerator is released, the car will proceed to start.  will I do this after an oil change to fill the new oil filter & build oil pressure...idk, maybe, unless I forget.

[faffi]

What do the quicky oil change places do?

Art

Charge you without changing the oil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-avpx8UTakI&pp=ygUWcXVpY2sgb2lsIGNoYW5nZSBzY2Ftcw%3D%3D

[frozengoose]

I've probably said this before but here goes. I attended a tech seminar where a fella from Caterpillar said prefilling filters was dangerous and futile. Dangerous, because it was probable that dirt would get in the oil in the filter during the installation process, then get through the engine before getting filtered. Futile because everytime the engine is started it runs for several moments without oil pressure.

I've noticed that since I started pre-filling the new oil filter, after a Harley guy at work told me about it maybe twenty years ago, the engine doesn't make that "death-rattle" sound for a few seconds before the oil circulates and it eventually quiets down. If you get dirt in the new filter when installing it, it doesn't matter if it has oil in it or not, it'll cause the same problems.

I have a diesel Ram. To get the filter through the small passage way it has to be horizontal, It is hard enough to go though the hole and past and past the two hard lines without oil draining out of a pre-filled filter. Oil pressure is restored quite quickly.
kk

I had that same problem with a Dakota years ago, so only filled the filter a little over half way with oil. Yah don't spill much oil that way and it still keeps the "death-rattle" at bay. I do that on the v65 too when I change the filter. Easy-peasy. Can't prove it does anything useful but makes me feel better and it's free, which should appeal to most Guzzi owners here!

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

It can be done just the same on the push button start Subarus. It's called "clear flood" mode. The OEM spec oil filters have an anti-drain back valve so they retain oil, and when you prime the oil system that way it also builds the pressure needed for the cam chain tensioner which is the most noticeable difference (noise) if you were to skip it.

The quicky oil change places are known for cutting corners, I wouldn't look to them for best practices or manufacturer recommendations.

[guzziart]

Charge you without changing the oil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-avpx8UTakI&pp=ygUWcXVpY2sgb2lsIGNoYW5nZSBzY2Ftcw%3D%3D