gilardoni cylinders

[acguzzi]

weel it seems the 850 lemans kits are not available so I am stuck sourcing custom 83mm pistons, has any one else found an "economical" source? it seems wiseco will cost me more than a couple of grand given a minimum run.

[frozengoose]

Not sure if this is what you want...

https://www.crustycycle.com/products/moto-guzzi-cylinder-complete-83mm-850t-t3-eldorado-850gt

[acguzzi]

unfortunately those are the low compression pistons

[fotoguzzi]

You should contact Crusty, he has a lot more stuff than listed on line.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

When faced with the same situation last year, on two different Le Mans rebuilds, one customer chose the 88 mm big-bore Gilardonis and I sourced NOS 2nd oversized 83 mm pistons from MI Rep. Paul Szostak for the other.

From what I understand, Gilardoni is about done supplying the Guzzi aftermarket, Stein-Dinse is supplying some kits now.

[Tom H]

If your pistons are good and your bores are shot. You might try https://millennium-technologies.com

Tom

[Turin]

I have a similar situation, but slightly further along. Don't you have cast iron bores? I bought a set of oversized pistons for my lemans engine project and a set of stock cast iron cylinders. I haven't looked into it yet, but it can't be that expensive to have the cast bores opened up to receive the slightly bigger pistons.

Also wondering If I can squeeze lemans 1000 pistons in 88mm cast iron bores (convert/g5/sp100) cylinders.

[Moparnut72]

I don't know if this in option or not but I will throw it out there. I worked in a shop for a couple of years that overhauled/restored radial aircraft engines. We were stuck with the pistons that came out of the engines. There were no aftermarket pistons except for Continentals. The reason being that to have aftermarket pistons made was not a big deal but to have them certified by the FAA was extremely expensive because of the very small demand. So we would measure the pistons and send the cylinders off to be chrome plated and ground back to fit the pistons. If the pistons were worn such as ring lands the boss would true everything up on the lathe or mill. If custom ring were required we would get rings that were slightly oversized and grind them to fit on the surface grinder. The difference which may or may not be an issue here was that radial cylinders are steel, not cast iron. The company that did the plating was in Oklahoma, Aircraft Cylinders of America. Might be an option.
kk

[guzziart]

Several years ago during the Gilardoni drought, Mark Ethridge at Moto Guzzi Classics  (562- 986-0070} hooked me up with Millenium exchange/replated cylinders and new CP-Carrillo forged pistons. They were for my '72 Eldo.  Anyway, you might try reaching out to Mark, he might have some options/suggestions that may be more appealing than what you're faced with presently.
FWIW, his "kit" worked great, he set the ring gaps so I didn't have to fuss with that aspect, the pistons looked too good for an old Guzzi.   
Art

[MattP]

millenim will nickasil castiron bores or you could pick up some shot 850 t t3 ect and have them plated

[Frenchfrog]

If going up to 88 mm bores it's worth checking the piston weight difference from the 83 's. If different to any significant degree then rebalence the crank and rods ...or live with the vibes.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If going up to 88 mm bores it's worth checking the piston weight difference from the 83 's. If different to any significant degree then rebalence the crank and rods ...or live with the vibes.

There is a weight difference between the original 83 mm piston assemblies and Gilardoni 88s, about 35 grams IIRC. This could be eliminated with lighter wrist pins, which I have done in the past.

[texasmoto]

When faced with the same situation last year, on two different Le Mans rebuilds, one customer chose the 88 mm big-bore Gilardonis and I sourced NOS 2nd oversized 83 mm pistons from MI Rep. Paul Szostak for the other.

From what I understand, Gilardoni is about done supplying the Guzzi aftermarket, Stein-Dinse is supplying some kits now.

Man I'm lucky to have got mine when I did. What does this mean for restorations in 10 years+?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Man I'm lucky to have got mine when I did. What does this mean for restorations in 10 years+?

Cylinder kits for the 850-T, T3, Eldorado, round-fin 1000s and big-bore kits for the 850 Le Mans are still available from Stein-Dinse (through MG Cycle and Crusty Cycle here in the US). S-D (like Gilardoni) will likely continue to sell these as long as there is adequate demand to make it worth their while.

Kits for the V7 Sport and Ambassador are not. In those cases, cylinders are sent off to be replated, original pistons reused (or NOS pistons if available).

We go through periods of certain parts going unavailable, but eventually a company such as Stucchi, Stein-Dinse, etc. has some made if the interest is sufficient. A determined mechanic will always find a way regardless. The "sky is not falling".

[testa_di_formaggio]

Cylinder kits for the 850-T, T3, Eldorado, round-fin 1000s and big-bore kits for the 850 Le Mans are still available from Stein-Dinse (through MG Cycle and Crusty Cycle here in the US). S-D (like Gilardoni) will likely continue to sell these as long as there is adequate demand to make it worth their while.

Kits for the V7 Sport and Ambassador are not. In those cases, cylinders are sent off to be replated, original pistons reused (or NOS pistons if available).

We go through periods of certain parts going unavailable, but eventually a company such as Stucchi, Stein-Dinse, etc. has some made if the interest is sufficient. A determined mechanic will always find a way regardless. The "sky is not falling".

WOW!!! Somebody that has grasped what is going on, and nails it. I might disagree with the part about Stucchi, they're out of the game now. But other than that, pay attention peoples!!! Charlie has it spot on!!! 

T d F

[blackcat]

I lucked out last year when the guy who was selling off Charlie Cole’s stash of parts on Facebook posted a set of Gilardoni’s for my 76 LeMans. The ad was posted for a few days and I assumed it was gone, I contacted the guy and to my surprise it wasn’t sold. He told me that people thought it was a scam and he asked if I could vouch for him once I received the kit and of course I did. Don’t remember what I paid but the price was fair.

[acguzzi]

the 88mm kits seem to available, but that is a different racing class that what I currently run in, it limits my options. I do have an 88mm iron lined set of jugs but I'd rather stick with the gilardoni 83mm set. Part of the issue was timing. However it's a bit late now so I have until June to sort it out. Unfortunately that may be a bit tight for custom stuff so an off the shelf 83mm high comp gilardoni kit would work if anyone has a lead, or off the shelf 83mm pistons would also work.

[testa_di_formaggio]

the 88mm kits seem to available, but that is a different racing class that what I currently run in, it limits my options. I do have an 88mm iron lined set of jugs but I'd rather stick with the gilardoni 83mm set. Part of the issue was timing. However it's a bit late now so I have until June to sort it out. Unfortunately that may be a bit tight for custom stuff so an off the shelf 83mm high comp gilardoni kit would work if anyone has a lead, or off the shelf 83mm pistons would also work.

Must they be off the shelf, as in new?

T d F

[acguzzi]

no they don't have to be new but there are also piston classes for matching dimensions to the bores. The pistons also seem to available for 88mm, just not 83mm

[testa_di_formaggio]

no they don't have to be new but there are also piston classes for matching dimensions to the bores. The pistons also seem to available for 88mm, just not 83mm

*Possibility* exists I have used original LM 83mm piston/cast pair, as well as used Gilardoni LM 83mm piston/cyl pair, albeit cylinder cut down 4(?)mm to allow for short throw crank. Much digging and rooting around to find them, as I say, possible. I should be able to find one pair or the other however. If I can't, I'll be seriously pissed off.

T d F

[jacksonracingcomau]

*Possibility* exists I have used original LM 83mm piston/cast pair, as well as used Gilardoni LM 83mm piston/cyl pair, albeit cylinder cut down 4(?)mm to allow for short throw crank. Much digging and rooting around to find them, as I say, possible. I should be able to find one pair or the other however. If I can't, I'll be seriously pissed off.

T d F

Another option, although post from oz might be prohibitive
I have a pair of “A” le mans 2 83mm pistons, from an insurance write off I bought in late 80’s, was very low mileage.
Barely used since then, was always just a spare engine, no blow by marks at all, pins like new
Unfortunately (for you) I used the nikasil barrels on my v700 with a pair of s/h ambo pistons
Pm me if interested

[1down5up]

Another option, although post from oz might be prohibitive
I have a pair of “A” le mans 2 83mm pistons, from an insurance write off I bought in late 80’s, was very low mileage.
Barely used since then, was always just a spare engine, no blow by marks at all, pins like new
Unfortunately (for you) I used the nikasil barrels on my v700 with a pair of s/h ambo pistons
Pm me if interested

Message Sent

[acguzzi]

lol, I guess you snooze you lose. let me know if they are still available. Anyone else have any good used 83mm high compression pistons?

Thanks

[jacksonracingcomau]

lol, I guess you snooze you lose. let me know if they are still available. Anyone else have any good used 83mm high compression pistons?

Thanks

Not how it is in my world, even though it’s a public forum, the offer was to you, therefore you get first option.
As tdf has a pair nearer you, it should work out and 1down can then buy mine
Proper cunning stunt would be to put them on eBay after finding out how rare they are !

Odd thing here, I should have ended up with loads of these, I put 90mm barrels/pistons on a lot of 850 le mans but a bloke who built and raced Laverda twins bought all the s/h 83mm lm pisons to put in them
Funny old world innit

[acguzzi]

so I should ask this question on a laverda forum  anyway sounds fair. TDF do you have a pair of said pistons?

[testa_di_formaggio]

so I should ask this question on a laverda forum  anyway sounds fair. TDF do you have a pair of said pistons?

As I noted above, I'll have to look. Over 20 years back. From a '77 LM, original cast iron with pistons. It had some track time on it, unknown how much, late 70's. My guess was not that much, possibly just a couple of BOTT races at Elkhart. I'm not 100% on the final disposition of that set. Might have it in the "pile", maybe not. Then, there was that Gilardoni 83mm LM set, cylinders cut down to run 750 classes. Raced for one season. Those are supposed to be in my personal stash, I was going to Hot Rod a V7 Sport/750S clone I have. That's not going to happen I'm gonna be drastically downsizing my bikes and parts stash. I'll start digging though stuff this coming week, see what I can come up with.

T d F 

[acguzzi]

Much appreciated TDF