NGC - Triumph Bonneville T120 vs Triumph Scrambler 1200 X

[rocker59]

The "right now, money no object" thread has prompted an admission:  I'm looking to buy something not made in Mandello del Lario.  A couple weeks ago Inditx came down and picked up my 2004 California EVT and hauled it back to Kansas.
 
When I was a youngster back in the early 1980s, I lusted after a Triumph Bonneville TSS eight valve.  Triumph's original Bonneville swan song.  I didn't ride and own a Triumph until the Sprint Executive in 1998.  It was a similar thing with Guzzi.  Man!  I lusted after a LM-III in the early 1980s.  Too rare and too expensive for a teenager, so my first Guzzi ownership had to wait until the 1996 Sport 1100 came into my life.  That turned into a 22+ year love affair in a long list of moto-flings.

1983 Honda CB650SC Nighthawk
1974 Harley Davidson XLCH
1994 Harley Davidson XL883
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100 (carb)
1998 Triumph Sprint Executive
2003 BMW F650 GS Dakar
1994 Ducati E900 Elefant
2000 Moto Guzzi Quota 1100 ES
2004 Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
2000 Moto Guzzi California Bassa
2010 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic
1991 Moto Guzzi Lemans 1000 CI
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Special
2004 Moto Guzzi California EV Touring

I made the "mistake" of riding a 2023 Bonneville T120 a few weeks ago.  An intoxicating experience.  There is also the "problem" of the super-cool 2024 Scrambler 1200 X languishing on my local dealer's floor.  While the Bonneville would really scratch my "retro itch" and it has more than enough capability to keep me entertained, the Scrambler is intriguing:  6.7 inches of suspension travel, front and rear, and the ability to comfortably run down rough paved and unpaved county roads.  Having owned three ADV-type bikes in years past, that extra suspension travel and 21 inch front wheel can sure be fun in places where I wouldn't even ride the Bonneville.

So tell me about your experiences with the latest from Hinkley.  The Bonneville T120 and the Scrambler 1200.

[Dirk_S]

I did a group test ride on a Scrambler 1200 a few years ago at Touratech’s Dirt Daze. It really scratched that itch of great performance and classic looks. I can’t really share any tight detailed observations, but between my test ride of that and the new Tenere, I didn’t find either significantly lacking anything that the other had besides aesthetics. And if the tank size is an issue, one can always get an auxiliary fuel can or bladder.

[PeteS]

A friend had an older Scrambler (900??). He spent a lot of money getting the suspension upgraded so he could actually take it off pavement. I found the high pipe pretty annoying as it interfered with leg position. I also preferred the old 360 degree crank bikes. That scrambler came with the 180 or 270 crank?? Maybe all the new retro bikes have that now.

Pete

[rocker59]

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[rocker59]

A friend had an older Scrambler (900??). He spent a lot of money getting the suspension upgraded so he could actually take it off pavement. I found the high pipe pretty annoying as it interfered with leg position. I also preferred the old 360 degree crank bikes. That scrambler came with the 180 or 270 crank?? Maybe all the new retro bikes have that now.

Pete

All the classics are on a 270 crank, now.  There are two versions of the engine:  HT and HP. 

The 1200 Scrambler is a lot more motorcycle than the 900 Scrambler.  Tubeless spoked wheels, generous suspension travel, dual front disk brakes.  Scrambler seems to only need one major mod for my liking, and you mentioned it:  The exhaust.  Aftermarket slipons without the cat and a little heat wrap under the heat shields should do it.  The 1200 has 89 horsepower and 81 lb/ft of torque.  Pretty stout.

For the Bonneville, the major mod would be sourcing a set of tubeless spoked wheels.  With as many flats as I've had over the years, I just can't get comfortable on a bike with tubes.

[kingoffleece]

I have friends with both bikes.  We had a LOT of Triumph's over the years.  The X is super capable-the old 900 was a style exercise.  The new X is MILES ahead-a true off-road bike.  The guys don't like the X on the road much-only to get from place to place to head back into the hills.  400 miles on roads they don't care for at all.

[Moparnut72]

I had a '22 T120. I couldn't get real excited about it but it fit the niche I needed, Guzzi didn't make a bike that did. My Audace got too heavy and cumbersome at slow speeds hence the Bonneville. When the Mandello came out I jumped ship. I hated chain drive but bought it anyway, after a while I converted it to belt. It wasn't cheap but it was worth it. I will never ever own a chain drive motorcycle again. The Bonneville is a very nice bike, great for secondary roads and overnighters etc, for long distance touring not for me.  Yet here I am now anticipating my V7 becoming my everything bike. Being old limits stuff, turned 80 today. Gotta go for a quick ride today if only to get groceries.
p.s. the exhaust sound of the T120 is the best of any bike I have heard or owned, I really miss that.
kk

[DoubleGuzzi]

.. turned 80 today. Gotta go for a quick ride today if only to get groceries.

Happy Birthday too! My 'treat' was a 60 mile round trip to the dentist, for a fallen out filling. Painless apart from the dental bill, though a lovely day for a spin.
[At 80, if I'm still alive, I'll be lucky if I can manage a Vespa - won't be seen dead on one.  ]

[inditx]

Rode both but owned neither.
I liked the T120 especially for riding 2 up. I would convert it to belt as Moparnut said/did, YMMV.
The 1200 Scrambler was nice and sounded great but that high pipe and 2 up was not in the cards for me. It was the XC btw.
Choose well and RideOn brother!
inditx

[adventurelounger]

Well, up until last week, I actually owned both. And now I just own one of them…but you have to wait until the end to see which one I kept. 

My 2020 Scrambler 1200 XE is a beast of a bike. I got her as a sort of "naked ADV bike" to replace my aging Yamaha Super Ténéré.

Howler of an engine. Massive torque. Beautiful fit and finish. Top shelf suspension. Tall as all get-out. Hot like a blast furnace on the pipes side of the bike. But what a fun and awesome machine…



If you’d like to read a bit more about my experience with the Scrambler XE, here’s a Vermont trip I took with it (on my motoblog): https://longitudeandgratitude.blog/2023/10/01/september-is-the-cruelest-month/

(Check out the video at the end, “rock climbing in Vermont.” I can’t believe we braved that trail and survived it unscathed!)

On the other hand, I am also the lucky and proud owner of a 2022 T120 Gold Line. She is an absolute stunner.



I’ve always loved Bonnies, and had a T100 Black a while back. But while it was a superb bike, I never quite fell in love with the blackout look (in short order, found it kind of monochromatic and dull), and I also found it to be slightly underpowered and under-geared the minute you pulled onto a highway (there’s no 6th gear, unlike the T120). So I actually traded that T100 in for the Scrambler XE.

While the Scrambler and T120 share engines, they are SUCH different horses, and provide totally different riding experiences. The Bonnie T120 is low, easy to hop on, mellow (but still plenty punchy with torque) and one of the most perfect, easy, back-roads bimblers you can ride. Everything is so smooth…the gearing, the steering, the controls…it’s a very refined package. You can even tour with it, but I find the seat limiting for that. Plus, the lines are so classic (IMHO, particularly in the green/silver Gold Line livery they offered in 2022). The Scrambler, on the other hand, is just as delicious, but much less “relaxed". It’s super tall (and I’m 6’1”), and throwing a leg over her is a…commitment. It’s a very taut and performance-oriented ride. Even with 50/50 tires, it’s superb when you leave pavement, and I imagine would be like a giant beastly dirt bike with knobbier rubber. A great rider (I am not one) could hoon the pants off that bike.

But for my purposes, as a distance-traveling ADV bike (and follow up to a Ténéré), the Scrambler was slightly off; even with a tall windscreen from Unit Garage, there was very little in the way of protection from the elements. And it always will have limited portage (one soft pannier on one side) because of the high exhaust. I tried adding a tail rack to accommodate a large tail bag or duffel, but it’s a stretch. As in, this:


Brilliant bike…just not ideal for how I wanted to use it.

So I think you can guess what stayed and what left. I actually sold the Scrambler XE last week to a local friend…so it's at least staying in the family.



But my Bonnie T120 is a total keeper. Here’s we are during a driveway admiration-session just last week.



And BTW, since I do a fair bit of “ADV” riding and distance exploring, I replaced the Scrambler (which replaced the Ténéré) with a Guzzi V85 Guardia, which I’m planning on taking cross country this summer. I find the V85 just right.



As far as your decision goes, I’d say that if you have (or have had) a classic bimbler, and want something to scratch the off-road, ADV itch, go for the Scrambler. I believe the seat on the new X model you’re looking at is lower than the XE, and closer to the seat height of the XC (which was the “less aggressive” variant of the XE when those were the two Scram models in 2020). But if you want the classic romance of the Bonnie, and you want something you’ll be as happy to ride and farkle as stare at, go for the T120. Hope that helps!

[rocker59]

As far as your decision goes, I’d say that if you have (or have had) a classic bimbler, and want something to scratch the off-road, ADV itch, go for the Scrambler. I believe the seat on the new X model you’re looking at is lower than the XE, and closer to the seat height of the XC (which was the “less aggressive” variant of the XE when those were the two Scram models in 2020). But if you want the classic romance of the Bonnie, and you want something you’ll be as happy to ride and farkle as stare at, go for the T120. Hope that helps!

The specs of the V85TT and the Scrambler 1200 X are remarkably similar.  Wheelbase, Suspension travel.  Scrambler X seat is an inch lower and makes a little more power at a lower RPM.

The exhaust thing is a real sticking point.  ZARD has two options for the Scrambler 1200:  a low 2:1, or slipons which eliminate the Cat.  If I were to buy a Scrambler 1200, I would order one of those immediately.  I think the high pipes might be livable with the CAT removed and wrap added under the heat shields.  The low 2:1 is the best answer for heat, but can't work with engine guards or center stand.  Compromises, Compromises...

[adventurelounger]

The exhaust thing is a real sticking point.  ZARD has two options for the Scrambler 1200:  a low 2:1, or slipons which eliminate the Cat.  If I were to buy a Scrambler 1200, I would order one of those immediately.  I think the high pipes might be livable with the CAT removed and wrap added under the heat shields.  The low 2:1 is the best answer for heat, but can't work with engine guards or center stand.  Compromises, Compromises...

Before you (or one) goes down the exhaust replacement rabbit hole, I’d try something like this. It’s made by some guy in Germany who 3-d prints these. I put one on my XE and it definitely helped:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/134819042002?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338590836&toolid=10044&customid=f79f9612584d1cb67541fe1aae05f41d

The other alternative is a pannier frame system that allows for two bags (or metal panniers), like this set up from Unit Garage: https://www.unitgarage.com/special_parts/bags_and_accessories/pair_of_aluminium_panniers_atlas_40l_34l_2



On the exhaust side, it makes the bike pretty wide. But it’s a viable option. I’d just be careful about cooking whatever’s in the exhaust-side pannier.

[Moparnut72]

I should have added that if the T120 is the choice get a comfort seat for it. It is a major improvement over the stock seat. Also a plus one on Unit Garage's products. I have a Unit Garage luggage rack on my Mandello, high quality and it is rated for twice the load carrying capacity of any of the others I looked at.
kk

[tazio]

Just get you a nice clean 8v GRiSO you know you've lusted after...
You're welcome.

[bronzestar1]

I've owned two Triumph Street Twin 900s, and currently own a Scrambler 400X.  Me personally, I wouldn't go for either the Bonneville or big Scrambler.  They both have spoked wheels, which I adamantly refuse to have (much prefer the looks and ease of maintenance with mag wheels), and those pea shooter mufflers on the Bonnie are just TOO retro for me. If it's gotta be a Triumph, the one at the top of my very short list would be the new Speed Twin 1200 in orange. 

[rocker59]

I've owned two Triumph Street Twin 900s, and currently own a Scrambler 400X.  Me personally, I wouldn't go for either the Bonneville or big Scrambler.  They both have spoked wheels, which I adamantly refuse to have (much prefer the looks and ease of maintenance with mag wheels), and those pea shooter mufflers on the Bonnie are just TOO retro for me. If it's gotta be a Triumph, the one at the top of my very short list would be the new Speed Twin 1200 in orange.

Spokes on the 1200 Scrambler are tubeless ala BMW.  Spokes on the Bonnevilles require tubes.  If I bought a Bonneville, I'd want to get a set of tubeless spokes for it, which cost about what the ZARD exhausts cost for the Scrambler.  Funny, but the Speed Twin 900, which was updated for 2025, has the least number of modification "needs".  And, there are some screaming deals on leftover 2024 Speed Twin 1200s. 

I guess there are no perfect bikes, but man!  What choices we have today!