Quota 1100 ignition problem

[Dicklimp]

Dear Lads and Lasses,

Quota 1100 ES. Starts and runs beautifully until only recently. Equipped with a PCIII.
Current state is -> She starts nicely without any kind of hesitation when cold. After 10 - 15 km she splutters and come to a halt. Fuel pump sounds as ignition is switched back on. Starter engine cranks nicely. No spark from plugs. Wait a few minutes and she starts without hesitation again.
Relays changed for new ones. No difference.
PCIII has been disconnected. No difference. (Connected or disconnected - still the magic 10 - 15 km run, then stop, wait a few minutes, start again.)

Before I understood I had no spark for a few miinutes, I thought it might be the solenoid fuel taps acting up in some way, so they are now modified for constant flow.

Thoughts for solutions anyone?

[guzzisteve]

There is a cam sensor on front cover side on L/H. Magnetic magnet gets dirty with filings from motor or particles unknown. They also go bad. 2 screws hold it with oring under and shims. See service book for distance(shims) from cam wheel. It gives the ignition. COULD be it..


Manual------------------https://guzzitek.org/atelier/gb/1100/1100Quota_102002_Atel(I_D_GB).pdf

[Dicklimp]

Thanks Steve!! I'll have a look at that.

[pressureangle]

Cam position sensors fail when hot. My '97 1100 Sport-i came to me with stall-when-hot symptoms that went from 20 miles and wait-to-cool home and within about 5 trips went to 3 miles and trailer, no start. My cam sensor was swollen and difficult to remove, but signalled and ohm'd good when cold; I put it on the bench with a heat gun and it went open circuit at about 150*F, every time. Replaced and all has been well for 25k miles so far.

[Dicklimp]

Thanks!
Heated up TPS as suggested, but seems to give correct amount of Ohm both cold and hot.

[pressureangle]

Thanks!
Heated up TPS as suggested, but seems to give correct amount of Ohm both cold and hot.

Not TPS, CPS. It's on the engine block, driver side, forward of the cylinder. Single bolt holding in a round sensor.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Cam position sensors fail when hot. My '97 1100 Sport-i came to me with stall-when-hot symptoms that went from 20 miles and wait-to-cool home and within about 5 trips went to 3 miles and trailer, no start. My cam sensor was swollen and difficult to remove, but signalled and ohm'd good when cold; I put it on the bench with a heat gun and it went open circuit at about 150*F, every time. Replaced and all has been well for 25k miles so far.

I agree, the Cam Position Sensor is the likely suspect
The pump runs for a second or two to prime the system when you turn On the key this is strictly a time thing then it waits to get the pulses from the sensor as the engine cranks over.
Without the sensor pulses you get no pump and No injectors and No ignition

I put a post on here suggesting everyone get a spare sensor, its a critical part. https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=123663.msg1906925#msg1906925

https://dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf
Page 13 shows the air gap 0.6 - 1.2mm
You cannot get feelers in to measure this, I usually stick a blob of fast set epoxy to the tip of sensor, bolt it in place while the epoxy sets up then remove and measure the thickness.

[Dicklimp]

THANKS!! Will try in the weekend again. This time with the correct sensor!

[Dicklimp]

Seemingly no luck with the cam sensor. Will dig into other sensors aswell.

[John Croucher]

There is a diode connected to the ignition relay ground. 

It is inside of heat shrink tube, well hidden.  It can crack.  Causing intermitten grounding.  Which causes the fuel pump to shut off, ignition control module to shut off.

From what i read, this was added on some Guzzis with fuel injection.  Mine was cracked.  I could move the relay and get a completed circuit.  Then move again and break the circuit.

Cost new, $00.19 new, pack pf 10 each.  I have 9 extra. 

Or just remove it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

There is a diode connected to the ignition relay ground. 

It is inside of heat shrink tube, well hidden.  It can crack.  Causing intermitten grounding.  Which causes the fuel pump to shut off, ignition control module to shut off.

From what i read, this was added on some Guzzis with fuel injection.  Mine was cracked.  I could move the relay and get a completed circuit.  Then move again and break the circuit.

Cost new, $00.19 new, pack pf 10 each.  I have 9 extra. 

Or just remove it.
Thats the safety diode it prevents the relay picking up if you accidentally put the battery in Backwards the drawing shows it to be an IN4007 rated at 1 Amp any small 1 Amp silicon diode will do it only passes 100 milliamps.

NO, don't remove it, it protects the ECU against frying if you accidentally put the battery in backwards.

[Kiwi_Roy]

When I bought my first Fuel Injected Guzzi I realized that I needed a way of monitoring the relays so I put an LED on all the 87 contacts
This gives a light show on startup and helps greatly in troubleshooting.

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Quota_1100_ES.gif
I strongly suggest you put a lamp on any relays that would cause a shutdown.Actually if you were able to monitor the 87 contact of (43) ECU Relay and (41) Power Relay I think you will find one or both are dropping out.
If I was in the factory I would add little lights as standard, they are a window into what's going on
I have been a sparky for 60 years and I still can't see what the electrickery is doing, a small lamp is a cheap window.
Roy

[Dicklimp]

Thanks mr Kiwi. As I ought to have an LED that lights up every time I'm thinking correctly around electrical problems (and it would most likely stay very dark), I will consult a good friend of mine for deeper ventures into the tips you guys have given so far.

THANKS!!