loop frame borrani rims with late model cali front hub?

[lazlokovacs]

Hi everyone, rebuilding my loop at the moment,

bike has a custom front end with a cali vintage front wheel and brakes, which has worked very well

just wondering if it's at all feasible to swap the cali vintage rim for the original borriani rim, keeping the cali front hub? Imagine I'd need new spokes, but would they line up??

2 reasons, I would like it to match the rear, the borrianis are just beautiful, and I've never been too happy having a wider rim at the front than the rear and I have time and patience.

Ok that was 4

Anyone BTDT???

[guzzisteve]

What you need is same amount of spokes on the same angle. Being a CalVin they go to center of rim so maybe if spoke count is same.

[Cam3512]

I have. Borrani front wheel for a disc brake loop I’m not using.  No tire mounted.  PM me if you think that might somehow work.  It’s pristine.

[PeteS]

Spoke angles have to be at least close. If they are not spot on make sure you use mild steel spokes, not stainless spokes. Stainless are brittle and will break.

Pete

[lazlokovacs]

thanks guys, took it all apart and had a look today, it's not going to happen, the spoke angles are just not close enough as far as I can tell

[Moparnut72]

I couldn't help laughing out loud when I opened this thread, I am glad I wasn't drinking coffee at the time. With my T3 project I just ran into a similar situation. The T3 I am rebuilding has a Borriani rim on the rear but a chrome rim on the front with one disc. The parts frame had a Borriani on the front with two disc. So I took one of the discs off the chrome rim and started to put it on Borianni rim/hub. The bolts holding the discs on were two different lengths. This was my first hint of things to come. The two hubs were different widths. When finally mounting the wheel it was just barely rubbing on the left fork. Trying different spacers from each wheel nothing worked. I finally cut a small spacer from the extra internal spacer for the left side. Then I was going to cut another for the right side but one of the originals was a perfect fit. It probably boils down to who did what to what. This is why this T3 project is testing my patience, this whole process including mounting and balancing the tire has consumed two long afternoons. The end result will be worth it though. Now that it is on two wheels I stuck the tank and seat in place to see what it looked like and what the ergonomics would be like. I am looking forward to riding it but I still have a long way to go. Thanks for the morning entertainment.
kk

[Cam3512]

thanks guys, took it all apart and had a look today, it's not going to happen, the spoke angles are just not close enough as far as I can tell

Could you lace in the Calvin hub into a Borrani?

[cliffrod]

In general, rims for full diameter hubs will have the spoke hole punched/drilled close to or tangent to the base edge of the hump.  Really large diameter hubs, like Laverda 240mm hubs or TZ hubs, usually have short spokes with spoke holes that move into the flat area near the base of the hump.   The hole for small diameter disc brake hub will be drilled closer to the top of the same hump. So they won’t interchange.  Holes also vary for conical/offset hubs- one side of hub is full diameter while one side is small- and spoke angle, which is determined by hub width.   Once you learn what holes fit what wheel build combination of parts, it’s pretty easy to identify what is likely to work or not. 

You have more flexibility with a steel rim because, compared to a thicker alloy rim, there is less material to force/hold a nipple in a certain angle or orientation.  When new, spokes will take an index to the hub hole.  It’s better to not remove the spokes and install it in a different hub hole to avoid accelerated wear and failure at the bend.

Lots of wheels can be built, whether it’s a good idea or not.  You just need to decide if a spoke that’s noticeable bent at the nipple on half or all of the spokes it something to worry about at speed or not….  Putting a drum loop borrani on any disc brake hub sounds like a waste of time. Get a borrani that’s already drilled for a disc hub, like the one Cam offered or a later Tonti rim.

[lazlokovacs]

In general, rims for full diameter hubs will have the spoke hole punched/drilled close to or tangent to the base edge of the hump.  Really large diameter hubs, like Laverda 240mm hubs or TZ hubs, usually have short spokes with spoke holes that move into the flat area near the base of the hump.   The hole for small diameter disc brake hub will be drilled closer to the top of the same hump. So they won’t interchange.  Holes also vary for conical/offset hubs- one side of hub is full diameter while one side is small- and spoke angle, which is determined by hub width.   Once you learn what holes fit what wheel build combination of parts, it’s pretty easy to identify what is likely to work or not. 

You have more flexibility with a steel rim because, compared to a thicker alloy rim, there is less material to force/hold a nipple in a certain angle or orientation.  When new, spokes will take an index to the hub hole.  It’s better to not remove the spokes and install it in a different hub hole to avoid accelerated wear and failure at the bend.


Lots of wheels can be built, whether it’s a good idea or not.  You just need to decide if a spoke that’s noticeable bent at the nipple on half or all of the spokes it something to worry about at speed or not….  Putting a drum loop borrani on any disc brake hub sounds like a waste of time. Get a borrani that’s already drilled for a disc hub, like the one Cam offered or a later Tonti rim.

this

came to the exact same conclusion once I had them side by side and split the calvin hub this morning

thanks  cliffrod

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If an undrilled Borrani could be found, a company such as Buchanan's could drill the holes to the proper angles. There are other brand rims that are very similar to the shouldered Borrani, so one wouldn't be locked into just that brand.

[cliffrod]

this

came to the exact same conclusion once I had them side by side and split the calvin hub this morning

thanks  cliffrod

Hope it helps.  I would check with both Cam re his rim and with Buchanan’s re spokes.  See what they have to offer.  It’s my understanding that Spokes benefit from tensile strength & elasticity more than simple cross section, because they deform in length more often than simply performing in compression.  Butted spokes are considered to be stronger than straight spokes because they offer different elasticity characteristics.

I have a variety of Borranis and have traded them for many years.  Right now I only have Loop drum brake and Tonti disc brake versions. I haven’t had a loop disc brake wheel, but would be curious if the 4-digit application/drill code might be the same as a Tonti disc brake borrani.  Iirc all of the loop drum Borranis I have are early and don’t have a 4 digit application code stamped on them.