V7 850 final drive leak

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I think I found the lift handle you're talking about, but not sure if it would fit the V7 850, or with my luggage setup.
https://www.motomachines.com/hepco-becker-center-stand-lift-handle-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer

I do have the rear rack to lift from, and yes, full weight on the right foot that's on the center stand. The majority of my motorcycles have center stands and I tend to use them regularly, especially to level the bike when fueling up or accessing luggage. Whenever I get the bike back again I'll try parking on a shim. I suspect it's an issue of weight as others that have tried could get it up onto the stand, though it didn't look particularly easy for them.

[2Nr]

I think I found the lift handle you're talking about, but not sure if it would fit the V7 850, or with my luggage setup.
https://www.motomachines.com/hepco-becker-center-stand-lift-handle-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer

I do have the rear rack to lift from, and yes, full weight on the right foot that's on the center stand. The majority of my motorcycles have center stands and I tend to use them regularly, especially to level the bike when fueling up or accessing luggage. Whenever I get the bike back again I'll try parking on a shim. I suspect it's an issue of weight as others that have tried could get it up onto the stand, though it didn't look particularly easy for them.

 Double check on your installation torques, one bolt out of spec can cause a bit of a bind, your center stand would be much harder to engage. Kneel down beside and you should be able to freely move the 2 feet down with one hand.

Good Luck with the rear drive leak, just waiting on the last bearing for mine.

Stephen

[Bulldog9]

Thanks for the tip on the small sheet of wood, that makes sense as a way to get it closer to being a "ride-off" center stand in terms of ease of use. Will give it a try. For the lifting handle, do you just mean a rear rack grab handle? I do have one of those on the H&B rear rack I have on the bike for luggage.

The bike is back at the shop again this morning and they're pulling the wheel now as it continued to leak oil after I picked it up last week. I suspect it's the seal that faces the wheel. They're going to try to track it down and warranty the new final drive unit through Moto Guzzi if necessary.

 Rear tire ratio, shock length and rear preload can help as well. When I had the longer rear shocks on the stornello I could literally roll it backwards onto the center stand. The Norge and 1200 Sport can be very difficult to get on the CS unless the preload is dialed up. The V7 is much lighter and easier, but rolling the rear tire on a 2x6 (or even a 1x6) makes all very easy for me. It's amazing how much difference even 1" makes.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

The center stand definitely rotates freely. On my coast to coast loop last year the outer spring on the center stand broke (despite not using it) and only having the inner spring connected caused it to bounce until I tied it up. Replaced the spring after the trip.

2Nr/Stephen, thanks. Hope yours is sorted out soon as well.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

When I had talked to the service department manager on the phone after last dropping it off, I was told that shaft drive bikes leak oil out the breather... even Honda Gold Wings. Funny how I have friends with 200k and 300k on those birds without having ever encountered that! Same for FJRs. Didn't appreciate that B.S.ing. I do understand a breather has a sort of check valve and under healthy conditions some oil mist will make it out, with the appearance of slight dampness or sootiness around the breather, but not oil dribbling onto the wheel of the bike, and especially not from a blind fill system where there's no way to check the level after it has lost oil.

Got the call this morning that the bike was ready to be picked up and hitched a Lyft out to Frederick to pick it up. A different mechanic worked on it this time and I was able to talk to him. He was afraid to tear into the final drive and have the bike out of commission waiting on parts, so what he did was drained and inspected the final drive, replaced the fill and drain crush washers (these were dry when I dropped it off, so shouldn't be the culprit), and said he tightened the breather and all accessible bolts with wheel removed, filled the final drive with oil and added yellow dye so if it leaks there'll be a trace. He did a test ride and checked for leaks, 8 miles per my odometer recording. He suspected the final drive was overfilled (their shop was where it was last drained and filled...) but couldn't identify a cause for the oil leak. Not what I was hoping to hear... I rode it home and found the drain plug (bottom) was wet with a drop of oil when I got home, wiped it off and snugged it maybe 1/16 turn. Did a short ride up my local canyon and back to see if it would stay dry, and it did. I'm hoping that's the end of it... if not I guess they'll chase the yellow dye.

[TN Mark]

Dr. Enzo Toma, where is the next closest dealer? I would not want to return to Aces, for anything.

The shaft drove bones leak oil out the breather is where I lost ALL faith in that dealers service department. Total nonsense comment from a position of ignorance. Topped off by a slightly loose drain bolt on your last ride home.

I’m no ‘distance rider’ but I do have over 500k miles on chattier motorcycles. Never a leak, a weep or a mist, ever.

Hopefully you can learn to pull the wheels to bring them in for tire replacement only.

I may be slow, but I’ve never let myself down with sloppy routine maintenance. Then again, I’ve never owned a small block Moto Guzzi. I’m on my 11th big block Guzzi though.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I had considered bringing it to Erico in Denver when I first returned from the coast-to-coast trip. Decided on Aces for a few reasons, the primary one being that they were in Fort Collins at the time which was only 11 miles from me. Erico in Denver would have been much more expensive and time consuming to get to/from without the bike after dropping it off or to pick it up. As mentioned in another thread, I had called Erico to feel them out for looking at the final drive leak. Though I bought the bike from them, they were not happy (practically argumentative) that it had been serviced entirely at other Moto Guzzi shops as they couldn't find any record of its service in their system. When I asked if they were experienced with working on the final drives the response was to the effect that they don't do much of that and I'd be waiting a long time for parts.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=124364.msg1914151#msg1914151

I wouldn't bring anything else to Aces, but at this point they are on the line for warrantying the work they've already done. The bike itself is a 2022, out of warranty. I paid out of pocket for the new final drive, and though they might not like to see me return there each time... the follow ups since the final drive replacement have been covered by them. Next time the bike needs service beyond oil change, filters, or valve adjustment... I'll try to plan to coincide with staying near a dealership out of state as I didn't have such a poor experience when the bike's been serviced in other states while traveling (San Diego, Portland).


At this point, I'm hoping the leak is gone, or if it returns the dye helps them trace it and they warranty the unit instead of boogering it up more and having me go back and forth again.
Once the final drive leak is behind me, will not be returning to them for additional service.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Has anyone had an isolated incident where they knew the final drive was overfilled and could tell me where that excess comes out? It would help my understanding and diagnosis of this and future issues to know that. If it blows past the seals and comes out the hole in the swingarm as mine did when it was overfilled to 200ml (but unknown to me the gears were also chewing up from poor engagement, so that wasn't an isolated issue of overfilling), does it come out the breather, or can it do either or both? Thanks in advance for insight into that from the Guzzi experts.

[TN Mark]

The rear drive gets chew themselves up, and that there’s no ‘adjustment’ surprised me. It’s like Piaggio installed an incompatible drive unit on your bike at the factory.

Plus, how can the designers be confused on how much oil the drive unit should take at a scheduled rear drive oil change. From reading this thread, it seems they changed the refill quantity twice.

[Vagrant]

FWIW, the new v7-850 now states a max of 130CC. How much did he put in it? If you don't know drain it into a clean measuring cup and then re-install it with 120CC. Use sealing tape on the threads.

[TN Mark]

Hopefully they’ll also eliminate the ‘level’ hole to prevent people from doing this procedure how they’ve done it for decades.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I agree and found it disappointing that the service manual states the final drive is not servicable in that way, with a reason given of it being for safety. I did find that it isn't uncommon for modern shaft drive bikes though, the ring and pinion shimmed as a factory matched set without field adjustment. Seems my original unit was just not shimmed right or settled differently over time, and was outside the factory warranty before it became apparent.

The fill hole being over 200ml high, resulting in it having been overfilled by a shop before my long tour and final drive replacement, seems like a big design mistake on Moto Guzzi. I think anyone could make the assumption that it's a fill level plug and to put oil in until it reaches the threads, unless they've been trained otherwise or read the manual. Them having revised the spec just highlights how flawed it is that the hole is not at the level height.

Is there any documentation for the latest revision of the refill spec? Last year when I had the bike serviced in Portland I brought it up, they pulled up the service manual on a computer and it was the same value I had, 160ml after emptying to total 180ml with 20ml residual. If that's been revised, it would be useful to me to be able to reference it.

[mhershon]

Doc, several years ago my V7 first series final drive leaked fluid on my rear rim. None of the wishful thinking solutions worked. I'm in Lakewood, just west of Denver. I drained the damn thing, removed it, packaged it carefully and sent it to Jim Hamlin in CT, who had done the services on the bike while it was in the hands of its previous owner, bless both their hearts. It came back maybe three weeks later. That was 30,000 miles ago. I have changed the fluid two or three times. Not a drop has appeared where it shouldn't. I believe I use 160cc as rec'd by Vagrant, whose advice I trust. I don't believe any wand-waving will repair a small-block final drive leak. Jim Hamlin at Hamlin Cycles will. He did in my case certainly. Good luck with your bike! 

[Vagrant]

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Hah, was not expecting them to update the fill bolt and spell it out!
Thanks for sharing that photo.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I am going to see if I can get the shop to order that updated drain plug with the "max 130cc" etched into it to hopefully avoid future dealership service misery. They are already ordering the rubber dust cover that goes over the breather, as they lost that while the bike was in their care.

I was able to get a hold of a PDF (but not a workshop manual) for the 2026 non-sport model, thinking it may have the same final drive but due to other changes would be a more recent (and thus, updated) document. The file provided from Moto Guzzi was named "GUZZI_GUZZI V7 STONE BLACK RUVIDO US MY26_USA.PDF" and yes, it does have the updated spec!

[ridingron]

Hopefully they’ll also eliminate the ‘level’ hole to prevent people from doing this procedure how they’ve done it for decades.

If they're doing a re-design, put the hole where everyone else does. Put it where more than the proper amount, drains out. Engineers/designers have been doing it for eons.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Called their parts department this morning. They weren't (yet) aware of the request to order the breather cap... had them order that, some crush washers, and "2B012828" which should be the fill plug that reads "MAX 130 cc". There seems to be an earlier variation, 2B0105001, which reads "MAX 160 cc". Parts desk said they'd have the service dept. check if there's any updated TSB since the 160cc revision as well.

[TN Mark]

If they're doing a re-design, put the hole where everyone else does. Put it where more than the proper amount, drains out. Engineers/designers have been doing it for eons.

All too often the important details are lost on the Guzzi engineers and designers. Sad really.

Then again, having to remove the rear wheel to change oil in the differential is also one of the stupidest designs they continue to do.