2013 Norge Purchased - Can't Change Gears - Need Advice

[Rev]

Rev here ... some members may recall a week or so ago I was looking to have a test ride on a MG 'Norge'.  Well I flew to Sydney from Brisbane last Wednesday, test rode the immaculate 2013 8V Norge, loved it, and rode away on it towards Brisbane with my wife on the back.

About 500kms into the trip home and suddenly I couldn't get it to change gears!  The gear lever just "stuck solid" in one gear or another under my left boot, mainly from 3rd to 4th but also 5th to 6th.  This happened around 15 or so times during the 1200kms trip home to Brisbane.  Now back home, with engine running and bike in neutral and there is a loud "clatter" in the gear box with the clutch lever out.  This is far louder and different to the normal quiet 'whirring' sound when in neutral of the clutch on most bikes (I've just transitioned to my MG from a Honda Blackbird).  When I pull the clutch lever in on the handlebars the "clatter" stops completely.

Fellow members advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated.  Bike still has 'warranty' until Jan 2016 but calls to a dealer don't make me feel all that confident of their support.  I hope I am proved wrong!   Rev

[guzzisteve]

Loud clatter is a dry clutch, thats normal.  Is it different than when you started out?

Did the dealer just service the bike?

[beetle]

Stuck gear could be simply the gear foot lever is not returning all the way after a change. Check the toe peg is not resting on you boot after a change. You may also need to adjust the clutch plunger. On the clutch lever/ master cylinder, there a little lever that depresses the piston. You may need to adjust it out ever so slightly. It is locked with a tiny grub screw and loctite. Apply heat to free the screw up. Only adjust it a tiny amount.

[rocker59]

Were you rolling when you couldn't change gears?  If you were stopped, don't do that.  Go down to first while you're rolling.

If it happened while rolling down the road, then I agree with the idea that you're not allowing the shifter to return to center.  Big boots can sometimes exacerbate that.

[Rev]

Thanks guys ... the loud "clatter" wasn't there at all when I first rode it.  By the way, I bought the Norge privately, not from a dealer.  This is very loud "clatter" and doesn't sound right at all ... like there is something gone "loose" in the gear box.  My son's Griso doesn't sound anything like the noise I've got on the Norge.  I did look at the gear lever 'plunger' and it is screwed right in as far as it can go ... wondering though if adjusting it out a little will cause the "clatter" to disappear in the gear box.  As for my gear foot lever ... as far as I know I tend to drop my boot well below the lever ... certainly not leaving it resting under the foot lever.  Should I be at all worried about this "clatter" somehow damaging the clutch/gear box ... it certainly doesn't sound all the good!!?   Rev

[Rev]

The "stuck gear" problem was happening mainly at high speed, around 100 - 120kmph on the main highway.  Rev

[rocker59]

It's got gear oil in it, right?

[Bobolink]

My 2013 Norge did this a couple of times early on.  I seem to recall it happening when downshifting from 6 to 5 and 5 to 4 and 4 to 3.  The gear lever was solid. I'd lightly fiddle with it trying to upshift and downshift, then it would change gears.  I believe this occurred before the bike had 1000 miles on it. There hasn't been any reoccurrences for the last 7000.
Can you record and post the clutch noise?

How many miles on this bike?

[JeffOlson]

I sometimes have to "double-clutch" my Norge when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. No idea why, and it is not always stuck...

[canuguzzi]

Loud clatter is a dry clutch, thats normal.  Is it different than when you started out?

Did the dealer just service the bike?

Absolutely NOT normal on the 8V Norge!

You can read Pete's comments on the 8V Norge clutch here (it should be nearly silent)

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=54499.0

Check the oils everywhere and also Beetle's advice.

The Norge should change gears smoothly although not always as quiet as a mouse. The hang on 2nd to 1st while stopped is a common thing among many including the Japanese.

The clutch on the 2013 Norge should be very quiet and not have the "dry" clutch sound as you'd typically think.

[Vasco DG]

Only other things I can think of are that the clutch slave cylinder bolts have come loose or the linkage from gear lever to pawl shaft has come loose.

Pete

[Rev]

Been out ... sorry for delayed response.  Pete ... slave cylinder is all tight and new-looking and dry ... checked fluid level and all good ... same with gear and engine oil levels.  Am wondering if I should adjust-out that grub screw for the 'plunger' on the clutch lever?  Does such an adjustment tend to quieten clutch plate noise?  The other quick thing of interest to me is what was mentioned re ... "the linkage from gear lever to pawl shaft" ... when I move the gear shift 'foot lever' there IS a definite "rattle" inside the gear box area after I click the foot lever into another gear (i.e., in the standing still position, engine running) ... could that "rattle" be associated with linkage from gear lever to pawl shaft' mentioned by Peter?  Rev

[Vasco DG]

I'm wondering you see if the lever simply is t giving enough travel to pull the dogs into engagement? That you see will produce a horrible graunching rattle from the box as the dogs try but fail to pull into engagement. If the selector arm on the pawl shaft is loose it may of worked itself back to the point where it's only hanging on by a whisker. Does the lever feel 'Sloppy' at all?

As I've said before if there is one component in the newer bikes that has proven virtually impregnable it's the gearbox. Can you give me the rego and VIN number? I have a sneaking suspicion I may know something about this bike. PM me those and the PO's name and I'll make some enquiries.

Pete

[Rev]

Thanks Peter ... yes, the clutch lever on the bars does feel quite "sloppy" and as mentioned earlier ... when I pull the clutch lever in the quite loud "clacking" noise goes away completely and all is smooth and quiet.  Will text you the other details mentioned re the bike's ID.  Thanks so much for your help everyone!  Rev

[Vasco DG]

So the 'Clacking' noise is only present at idle when the clutch isn't engaged? It could just be that the throttle bodies need balancing. Sorry, it's almost impossible to diagnose these sorts of problems remotely.

Pete

[pauldaytona]

does the cluch come free when it should? And it's not that the gearchange lever is wrong adjusted so it moves to the footrest or something when up or downshifting.

[Rev]

Yes, as mentioned previously this quite loud "clacking" noise is there with engine running and clutch not engaged.  Took the Norge to a Brisbane MG dealer this morning and asked to speak to their main mechanic who handles the MG's.  I started the engine and he agreed that the noise should not be there; certainly not to the extent that it is.  He said something about the possibility of the 'dogs' (in the gear box??) not engaging fully, and that a certain "spring" associated with the clutch/dogs engaging may have weakened.  Peter mentioned the aspect of these 'dogs' as well at one point.  The bike is still under 'warranty' and I was concerned to know before committing to them if this problem with the Norge (2013 model) would be covered.  They said they will let me know once they've assessed and diagnosed the problem. 

Will post the results of what they come up with ... maybe by this Wed or Thurs.  I'd have to say that they were quite welcoming to me and were very affirming of the support available for warranty claims through the national MG distributor.  We'll see!   Many thanks to all for your help and support.   Rev

[kirb]

RE:
Clutch lever out, trans noise- The early Grisos had this issue, which was resolved. Not a Norge problem, but gives some insight on what might be the problem:
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x350/jtkirb/Bike%20pics/Service%20bul-%20noisy%20gearbox_Page_1_zpsgnmvz7rr.jpg
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x350/jtkirb/Bike%20pics/Service%20bul-%20noisy%20gearbox_Page_2_zpsxomf2tnc.jpg
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x350/jtkirb/Bike%20pics/Service%20bul-%20noisy%20gearbox_Page_3_zpsjo9himvj.jpg
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x350/jtkirb/Bike%20pics/Service%20bul-%20noisy%20gearbox_Page_4_zpsfw7qqsrv.jpg

I would be checking all fluid levels ASAP. I would also consider draining the trans and see if there is anything on the magnet.

[Triple Jim]

Yes, as mentioned previously this quite loud "clacking" noise is there with engine running and clutch not engaged.

Above you said the noise occurs when the clutch handlebar lever is released (clutch engaged).

[Vasco DG]

RE:
Clutch lever out, trans noise- The early Grisos had this issue, which was resolved. Not a Norge problem, but gives some insight on what might be the problem:

Sorry, utterly irrelevant. The noise in the early Nuovo six speed boxes was caused by poor or insufficient packing of the face cam shock absorber system on the input shaft. This allowed the cams to rattle against each other as the shaft accelerated and decelerated during the engine's 720 degree cycle. The 8V models, (Apart from the Cali 14.) use the second generation Nuovo six speed which doesn't have the face cam shock absorber so it can't rattle.

Pete

[kirb]

Sorry, utterly irrelevant. The noise in the early Nuovo six speed boxes was caused by poor or insufficient packing of the face cam shock absorber system on the input shaft. This allowed the cams to rattle against each other as the shaft accelerated and decelerated during the engine's 720 degree cycle. The 8V models, (Apart from the Cali 14.) use the second generation Nuovo six speed which doesn't have the face cam shock absorber so it can't rattle.
Pete

Thanks Pete...
I'd still be checking the magnet for wayward parts before tearing into a trans (as well as some of the other checks suggested)

[canuguzzi]

Regarding you warranty, I don't know how it works where you are located but reporting a problem during the warranty period gets it covered as warranty if it would normally be so and the bike was at the dealership.

This is why I recommend that anything and everything that isn't specifically excluded by warranty be reported if it fails. If one person reports a problem with a bolt, no big deal but if there are many then it becomes something more likely to be addressed.

Since MG warranties the Norge for 2 years and unlimited mileage, if you're within that 2 years, it should be covered. It can be a real PITA to report or go to a dealer for things but it improves the breed and is something you paid a lot of money to get. The warranty is built into the cost of the sale price.

[Rev]

Thanks Norge Pilot ... my Norge is now at a MG dealer ... been there 3 days now and not been looked as yet which is a concern.  I'm just hoping that the loud "clacking" sound in neutral is to do with a clutch linkage issue and not anything more serious.  Certainly when I test rode the bike a week ago in Sydney it was quiet and smooth.  Something definitely went wrong with the clutch/gears on my 1200km ride back to Brisbane.  One of my concerns is the lack of experience and knowledge with MG's locally and specifically with the Norge .. dealer's rep' said they have only sold 2 Norge's in the last 2 or 3 years.  Would feel much more confident about my Norge and MG ownership if I lived closer to Canberra with the MG Guru (Vasco DG) located there!  Thanks again men for your interest and advice.  Will update when I have some news about my gear change/clatter issue.   Rev

[canuguzzi]

This might be a busy time for the dealer and since it isn't something like a cable adjustment it could be one of those things that once you get into it, you have to go all the way.

I try to give the dealer a benefit of the doubt in scheduling because there are probably 10 other riders just like me who want their bike fixed right away and they might have only 1 tech who is comfortable working on MG bikes. The other thing is that often, dealers don't call you when they have news, just the way it works so after 3 days a call is appropriate, just stoke the fire a little.

What puts tech off is all the plastic on the Norge. Removing the tank is a bugger until you do it once or twice and it's just a real PITA to get to where you need to be to do much of anything.

If you'll be using this dealer for your service, get to know the tech and service writer. A little grease there goes a long way. It's a somewhat thankless job because all they get everyday is other people's problems and it's always how fast and how cheap can it get fixed.

I can say that of all the bike I've had, the service for my Norge has been better than all the rest.

When you get your bike back, check all the screws on the plastics, they aren't all the same on the lowers and it is easy to get them mixed up and they won't fit right.

Hopefully the dealer will get to the bottom of this and it turns out to be some small thing making a lot of noise.

The Norge is a fantastic machine and while it does what a lot of other bikes do, it goes about it in such a way that your cheek split from the big grin you get riding it.

[Rev]

Thanks Norge Pilot.  I agree with your comment re all the 'plastic' which needs to be removed to get at most things!  My son has a naked Griso and most everything is so quickly accessible.  Regarding the business of the MG dealers and how best to approach them ... my current issue re the clutch happens to be a 'warranty' issue and that also affects how quickly the dealer gets on with my job.  With a heap of their main-line Jap bikes waiting to be serviced, with the up-front revenue from customers, I have felt a reluctance on the part of the dealer to make my MG a priority.  I gather through a conversation I had recently with a smaller dealer interstate that the MG dealers don't get paid for warranty jobs up-front with 'money' as such, but received some sort of 'credits' from MG global towards whatever other aspects of their involvement with MG. 

As for the fact that my gears "stuck" solid some 10-15 times on my 1200km trip from Sydney ... the dealer's main mechanic said he test rode my Norge for 10kms and the gears didn't stick at all, so "sorry" but we don't see a problem!   Thanks again NP for your comments.  Rev

[Vasco DG]

As I've said. I don't think it's a gearbox problem, I really don't. The Gen 2 Nuovo six speed has been impregnable. I'm sure it's something to do with the clutch actuation or the actual linkages to the pawl adjuster. I may be wrong but I'd be very surprised if I am.

The oil pressure sender shitting itself? That's a known problem, although a comparatively rare one in real terms. This gearbox issue reeks of simplicity to me. Something like the lever being on one spline to high or low and not allowing full travel to engage on changes or simply a poorly adjusted link rod.

Unfortunately I'm a long way away.

Pete

[Rev]

Yes, thanks again for your help and advice Peter.  I have really appreciated it.  Bike is still with the dealer (over 1 week now) but when I phoned this arvo they has installed the new oil pressure switch and the bike was running.  My son and I are thinking of the 'possibility' of coming your way around September and have you service our Griso and Norge.  See how we go.  Son has a good handle now on the 'mapping' of his Griso engine so I'm hoping that with a good tuning of my Norge that the loud 'clacking' noise will mostly disappear ... I'm not exaggerating, it was quite loud by the time I rode the Norge from Sydney back to Brisbane.  Here's hoping!   Thanks again Pete and regards.   John