BMW Going to Carbon Fiber Frames?

[leafman60]

Looks like the Germans are still trying to save weight.  I'd let these be sold a year or two before buying one, though. 

Kudos to BMW for at least thinking ahead.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2015/august/bmw-developing-carbon-fibre-frames/

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I hope the first carbon motorcycle frames are a little stiffer & more durable than the earliest carbon bicycle frames! 

[Vasco DG]

I hope also that insurance companies recognise the difference between CF and other materials. Doubt very much if it won't alter the fact we'll all get spanked with premium rises despite frames made of other materials not being quite so 'Disposable'.

Pete

[Doppelgaenger]

Yeah I'd like to see what happens when a carbon frame motorcycle gets into a highside scenario. crunch...

[SteveAZ]

I hope the first carbon motorcycle frames are a little stiffer & more durable than the earliest carbon bicycle frames! 

Ha ha, those things flexed almost as badly as a Vitus frame.

I'm not generally in favor of non race carbon frames on things that can take impacts. I'm not against the technology I just think it gets used at times in ways that make things overly disposable. Mountain bike frames, motorcycle frames etc. I also dislike the increased potential for a catastrophic failure with less "warning"....i.e. a growing physical crack in a metal structure vs an invisible debond or delamination in a carbon structure that you can't see. You wont always catch a crack in aluminim or steel but there's a chance at least. I'm an engineer, I think the stuff is cool but I don't like the areas it gets used in sometimes.

I know things will likely go this way but Im not a fan. 

[Phang]

I hope also that insurance companies recognise the difference between CF and other materials. Doubt very much if it won't alter the fact we'll all get spanked with premium rises despite frames made of other materials not being quite so 'Disposable'.

Pete

I went to the Alfa Romeo show room last month. The sales guy told me, in a bad crash, they need a certified Alfa people to check the carbon tub of the 4C to decide whether it is still reusable or junk, there is no repair.

[boatdetective]

Anything is repairable- especially composites. However, it's just too easy for a manufacturer to condemn the entire part...and then sell you another.  I run into this with carbon fiber sailboat masts. Everyone wants a brand new one, no matter how microscopic the damage. One of the issues is finding someone with the skill and finesse to feather back and vacuum bag a repair. Most glass repairers in the field are used to working with thick, over engineered glass fiber and polyester resin parts. The other issue, of course, would be disassembling a huge part of the car just to access the carbon tub.

[leafman60]

There are a lot of positives about using carbon fiber components, including structural components.

Again, I compliment BMW for at least seriously looking into it.

[bad Chad]

That's very kind of you, I'm sure BMW appreciates your compliment very much.

[leafman60]

That's very kind of you, I'm sure BMW appreciates your compliment very much.

I've chewed on their asses enough that any compliment from me is noteworthy, at least in my own mind !

Hey, I still said that I'd wait for the BMW carbon frames to prove themselves in the market before buying one.

[LowRyter]

Assume that the frame will be a Monocoque rather than tube frame- a box to hang the engine, seat, fork and swingarm.  Ducati and Kawasaki have a steel or aluminum Monocoque bikes.  Duc did the CF for Moto GP and couldn't make it work- I think the stiffness and bending forces weren't predictable to provide consistent handling feel. 

[jlburgess]

Assume that the frame will be a Monocoque rather than tube frame- a box to hang the engine, seat, fork and swingarm.  Ducati and Kawasaki have a steel or aluminum Monocoque bikes.  Duc did the CF for Moto GP and couldn't make it work- I think the stiffness and bending forces weren't predictable to provide consistent handling feel.

Yeah, and now that they are using an aluminium beam frame they suddenly are in the top 5.  Go figure! 

[kirby1923]

Me thinks John Britten did pretty well with CF on his 1000!

mike

[not-fishing]

I hope the first carbon motorcycle frames are a little stiffer & more durable than the earliest carbon bicycle frames! 

Now don't be that way, the Alan frames were fine if you are a 130 lb Colombian like Julián Arredondo, the Dwarf like Raul Alcala or my 100 lb Cantonese Dragon Wife. 

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Now don't be that way, the Alan frames were fine if you are a 130 lb Colombian like Juli�n Arredondo, the Dwarf like Raul Alcala or my 100 lb Cantonese Dragon Wife. 

Never rode the ALAN, I hade a Colnago Master X Lite during that era..

I did once have a Vitus with a bonded lugged aluminum frame out of the same factory..  That thing was a noodle.

I was salivating over a carbon Guerciotti CX bike with glued aluminum lugs with full Campagnolo Record on eBay.. missed it by this much

[jlburgess]

Me thinks John Britten did pretty well with CF on his 1000!

mike

You mean the second version?  The first one failed in spectacular fashion at the headstock! 

[not-fishing]

Never rode the ALAN, I hade a Colnago Master X Lite during that era..

I did once have a Vitus with a bonded lugged aluminum frame out of the same factory..  That thing was a noodle.

I was salivating over a carbon Guerciotti CX bike with glued aluminum lugs with full Campagnolo Record on eBay.. missed it by this much

The wife  still rides a Vitus 979 (bonded & lugged made by Alan) frame. Of course I "modified" it and it scaled out to 17 1/2 lbs back in the '90's.



I bought a  Lighthouse back in '90 and had the builder, Tim Neenan, build it out of the heavier SP tubing even though it was a 55 x 56 (Phinney geometry like).  Sure it was a bit of a jackhammer but at least it didn't change gears on me standing up steep hills / mountains.  Just call me "big boned".

Maybe that's why I ride my Griso with more "close contact seating" like a jumping horse over the dips and bumps.

[kirby1923]

You mean the second version?  The first one failed in spectacular fashion at the headstock! 

Yes but when running on the leading edge of technology you can expect the unexpected.

I believe they got it sorted but it shows what can be done by eliminating the frame plus using materials with remarkable properties and by thinking outside of the box.

BTW, when CF fails it generally is spectacular! (having witnessed CF wing spars stressed in load testing to failure)

mike