'09 Norge ECU "failure"

[blackbuell]

Wife and I have had a week-long MC trip planned for the last 3-4 months; much too late to change plans now, as we were to have left in the middle of next week. In preparation for the trip, 10 days ago I brought my '09 Norge into a new Dealership for some routine maintenance that I didn't have the time or expertise to handle easily on my own; inner spark plugs, fuel and air filter, TPS reset, etc. (yes, I realize that I am a mechanical ignoramus). I got a call from the dealership today with some bad news; the owner of the shop says that my ECU is bad and must be replaced; big ticket item. Not only will the ECU replacement be costly, it probably won't be done in time for the bike to be ready for our trip. Now this was a big surprise to me, because despite some minor issues (unstable idle at times, stalling when cold) that I have tolerated for the past 25,000 miles, the bike was running fine. I saw no errors on the dash to indicate any problem. The owner of the shop says that the problem became apparent when the tech hooked up the ECU to diagnostic equipment; said the diagnostic equipment indicates that the ECU is bad.

I thought I would give this new place a try, in part because it is less than an hour away from home; in the past I would ride up to 400 miles to have work done on the bike. I am basically a trusting person, but I am feeling a bit skeptical about this situation. Am I wrong to be questioning what has happened here? I don't know enough about ECU's and diagnostic systems to know if the guy's story is on the level or if I am a big sucker for buying it.

Comments are welcome,

Jon

[blackcat]

I'd get the bike back because this does not sound quite kosher to me.

[canuguzzi]

Big question. Were you having problems before it went it other than just a need for the tuneup sorta thing?

Did they go over the hike with you prior to you leaving it there?

What I'd do: Go there and ask to see the equipment and training certs for the tech who worked on the bike. Take pics.

Ask: how far into it did they get when they claim the ECU was bad? Maybe Pete can chime in but I'd think they'd do the mechanical stuff first, plugs, valves, filters/oils, other mechanical adjustments and then tackle the TPS reset (just disconnect from battery if I'm not mistaken)

I don't know if that is how they might have tried to do it but who know, shorting out the battery to other electrics somehow, reversing hot and ground for the battery, stranger things have happened.

Don't just pay though. You deserve more than a "its bad" unless it just happened to go at that time which is less likely, at least IMHO.

[fatbob]

My '07 had a bad ECU that did not trigger any errors, she just missed when the ambient temp was below 45 F.  Course I damaged that ECU disconnecting the battery wrong.

[beetle]

Sounds suspect to me. Find out what exactly is indicating an ECU failure. If he bike was running OK prior to the 'service', then either they damaged something, or they maybe are clueless.

[Vasco DG]

If it was running it is highly unlikely that the ECU has shat the bed. If it does you almost invariably get the ECU unplugged symbol on the dash. If it's just throwing up an error code or two just clear them and see if they come back.

To me it sounds more like they've fiddled with something that they shouldn't of fiddled with and the bike is now running like a munter and they're blaming the ECU. Problem is if they drop a new ECU into it, (In itself a right frontbottom of a job on a Norge due to its location under the steering head!) it won't make it better.

I fear that they may of tried to adjust the idle using the throttle stop screw. The results of this are never good. It is possible to recover this situation IF you know what you're doing and the screw on the RH TB hasn't been poxed with but if they've also tried adjusting the linkage rod then it will be very, very difficult.

Ask them how they went about balancing the TB's and what they tried to set the idle speed to. If they give you a number for the idle I'd be worried as its controlled by the stepper and hard coded into the ECU.

Pete

[pauldaytona]

Sounds strange. So when it appears when he connects the diagnostic, means the bike still runs, or died from connecting the diagnistic?


Or they wrongly connected red and black to battery?

Ask hem the errorcode. There is no code for dead ecu. Or it connects to the diag, or not at all.

And if the ecu is broken, an easy fix is another 5am ecu, from a ducati, and flash with guzzi map, you are ready for 200$ I think.

[canuguzzi]

Or they removed the battery for some reason and put it in backwards, I think the cables would reach.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Or they removed the battery for some reason and put it in backwards, I think the cables would reach.

They have a Safety Diode to protect against that, it won't allow the relay to pull in.
This is common for all the ECUs from early 90s
The earlier bikes had an ordinary diode external to the relay, the P8 has it inside the ECU.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge.gif
You can see it in item (29), of course if the relay has been swapped out all bets are off.
I think if I had a Norge I would add an extra diode external to the relay.

[pauldaytona]

They have a Safety Diode to protect against that, it won't allow the relay to pull in.
This is common for all the ECUs from early 90s
The earlier bikes had an ordinary diode external to the relay, the P8 has it inside the ECU.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge.gif
You can see it in item (29), of course if the relay has been swapped out all bets are off.
I think if I had a Norge I would add an extra diode external to the relay.

 not what I meant, I mean the diagnostic mostly has a battery connection too. When they swap red-black there,
the diagnostic entrance gets blown up, as a side effect engine only runs with diagnostic connected.   

[kirb]

Questions that will help tell you if they are full of it...

What was being done when the ECU fail came up?
Did the techs update the software map? SPECIFICALLY what was done?

You brought a working bike in for service and now you need a new ECU? Nope. They need to buy you a new ECU. Ask for the bike back in the same condition you gave it to them in...

Sounds like someone screwed up with the communication tool.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Questions that will help tell you if they are full of it...
 

I represent that remark LOL
Paul,
        I was answering Norge Pilot's post about the battery going in backwards.

[Chuck in Indiana]

<sigh> It *could* be coincidence.. but I doubt it. If the ecu is fried, they were most likely the cook. If the sacred screw has been fiddled with, they were the fiddler. They should man up and fix this problem.


If they are capable.
<grumble grumble>

[lucian]

 

<sigh> It *could* be coincidence.. but I doubt it. If the ecu is fried, they were most likely the cook. If the sacred screw has been fiddled with, they were the fiddler. They should man up and fix this problem.



If they are capable.
<grumble grumble>

 :1: I am sorry for your dilemma. sure seems unlikely to be a coincidence. Maybe they could at least meet you half way.

[ohiorider]

<sigh> It *could* be coincidence.. but I doubt it. If the ecu is fried, they were most likely the cook. If the sacred screw has been fiddled with, they were the fiddler. They should man up and fix this problem.


If they are capable.
<grumble grumble>

I doubt it, also.  It's like taking my car in for oil/filter/tire rotation, and finding I need a new engine.  If I work on one of my vehicles and screw it up, well, that's on me.  If I take it to a garage and it comes out worse than when it went in, it should be on them.