Puzzling CCS-100 cruise problem

[ITSec]

I've got an old Audiovox CCS-100 cruise installed on the Norge - overall, it works fairly well, but it has a puzzling behavior that can be annoying. From time to time, it shuts itself off. By this, I don't mean it disengages the way it does when you use the brakes; it totally powers off as if the main power or the ground wire had been cut. The LED on the control pad goes out, and I have to hit the ON button before I can use the system again.

This seems to happen more frequently in extremely windy conditions, so I just spent a fair bit of time going over my wiring harness looking for wires or connectors that might be strained in such a situation. Despite tugging and pulling various wires, no luck - the continuity tester seems to show all is well.

Any thoughts? Or should I just plan for a complete re-wire of the system (ugh!)?

[Zoom Zoom]

It may just co-winki-dink that it seems to happen when it is windy. What I would probably do is rig up a small light to the power wire just before it goes into the unit. Put the bulb somewhere you can see it and wait for it to happen. If the light goes out, it is a wiring issue, OR the control switch itself. If the light stays on, then the cruise module itself could be the source of the trouble. That would give you the ability to begin to isolate the trouble.

John Henry

[charlie b]

When windy is it cycling the system more?  Could the module be overheating in those conditions?  Just wild guesses.  I like the light bulb idea to check wiring vs module.

FWIW, I had an old motorhome with an add on cruise control.  If I hit a big bump it would shut off.  Never did figure out why.

[ITSec]

Well, I've tested all wiring across the entire cruise harness outside of the main module and it all tests good. I am a bit puzzled by the so-called tach circuit (blue wire) that has always been wired to the pick-up on the left coil and has worked perfectly. The noise suppression in-line resistor is reportedly a 20k ohm 1 watt unit, and this wire is supposed to provide a variable AC voltage to the control unit inside the main module. Brief testing shows that the voltage does not vary as supplied to the module; it measures a fairly steady 23.5v AC or so. All the 12v wires act as intended, including the often reportedly problematic brake light circuit (which is properly wired in with a relay and a resistor to deal with the LED issue).

I am suspicious of the resistor, since it doesn't seem to be providing a variable voltage as the product manual documents.

Of course, it's also possible that the main module has failed; it's been on the bike for about 70,000 miles now and it is an old design.

Has anyone measured the AC voltage supplied on the blue wire? If so, what is 'normal', and how did you measure it?

[stephenm]

FWIW, I had an old motorhome with an add on cruise control.  If I hit a big bump it would shut off.  Never did figure out why.
[/quote]

Possibly the brake pedal moving a fraction and tripping the brake pedal cutoff micro switch.

Stephen

[Zoom Zoom]

I understand the wiring has been tested, but you need to be able to see it fail. With a test lamp rigged up, you can ride the bike and tell what was going on. If the lamp goes out when the cruise shuts off, then move the connection to ahead of the switch and retest. If power never goes out, then the control module has become faulty. You said it was intermittent. You'll need to start by getting it to fail and figuring out where the failure occurred in the system.

John Henry

[ITSec]

I understand the wiring has been tested, but you need to be able to see it fail. With a test lamp rigged up, you can ride the bike and tell what was going on. If the lamp goes out when the cruise shuts off, then move the connection to ahead of the switch and retest. If power never goes out, then the control module has become faulty. You said it was intermittent. You'll need to start by getting it to fail and figuring out where the failure occurred in the system.

John Henry

Well, fortunately (in the electronic sense) the behavior has become more constant, and tracking it should now be simpler.

While I appreciate what you are saying here, in effect I have test lamps - the LED on the pad, and the backlight. If the backlight remains on (it does) then the supply side power remains good even when the behavior occurs. If the LED were to remain on (it doesn't), then the failure would be related to the brakelight circuit, as if I were hitting the brakes frequently. I wired a bypass (red to brown, separate intermittent switch) for the pad and took a ride using that - I was unable to get the cruise to engage, even though it 'thought' the ON button was engaged. This leaves either the brown return wire for the ON power, or the blue tach wire. In reading about the purpose of the noise suppressor, I found that excess electrical noise on that circuit will cause the unit to shut down - and no signal at all will not allow it to engage.

The next step in the process of elimination would be to use a known good wire with a similar resistor in place of the current blue wire - that's on Sunday's agenda.

While resistors are not prone to easily fail, both vibration and heat are known causes - and since this one is located up near the left head (and in Las Vegas) it gets plenty of both.

I wish there were a straightforward way to test the control module itself, but Rostra hasn't published that 

[Wayne Orwig]

Well, I've tested all wiring across the entire cruise harness outside of the main module and it all tests good. I am a bit puzzled by the so-called tach circuit (blue wire) that has always been wired to the pick-up on the left coil and has worked perfectly. The noise suppression in-line resistor is reportedly a 20k ohm 1 watt unit, and this wire is supposed to provide a variable AC voltage to the control unit inside the main module. Brief testing shows that the voltage does not vary as supplied to the module; it measures a fairly steady 23.5v AC or so. All the 12v wires act as intended, including the often reportedly problematic brake light circuit (which is properly wired in with a relay and a resistor to deal with the LED issue).

Sounds like you are over thinking it. That coil sense line is going to be hard to measure/interpret.

Do you have a relay contact feeding the brake input to the cruise? (as in, opened circuit normally, then 12 volts with the brake on? ) If so, I would worry a little about that. Normally, there would be a filament on that brake input, loading the line to ground, then of course it would go to 12 volts with brakes applied. Maybe (wild guess here) if you have the line floating, when the brake is off, it is getting a bit of electrical noise on it which looks like the brake is applied. Maybe try adding a small 12 volt bulb to the line to load it.

Just a thought.

[ITSec]

Sounds like you are over thinking it. That coil sense line is going to be hard to measure/interpret.

Do you have a relay contact feeding the brake input to the cruise? (as in, opened circuit normally, then 12 volts with the brake on? ) If so, I would worry a little about that. Normally, there would be a filament on that brake input, loading the line to ground, then of course it would go to 12 volts with brakes applied. Maybe (wild guess here) if you have the line floating, when the brake is off, it is getting a bit of electrical noise on it which looks like the brake is applied. Maybe try adding a small 12 volt bulb to the line to load it.

Just a thought.

The brake light line uses a resistor (to prevent the running light 6v from crossing) that only allows flow to the trigger side of the relay when the voltage goes above 9v or so. The relay itself feeds a line from the Eastern Beaver block that goes to the standard brake trigger of the CCS-100 main module. The line was tested for both full voltage (brake applied, matches battery voltage) and leakage (brake not applied, multimeter shows no voltage at all being transferred).

You are correct that troubleshooting the tach sensor line is a tough call. Fortunately, I have a place where I can pick up an appropriate resistor to replace the inline factory one. Heading over there once the F1 race ends. 

[charlie b]

FWIW, I had an old motorhome with an add on cruise control.  If I hit a big bump it would shut off.  Never did figure out why.


Possibly the brake pedal moving a fraction and tripping the brake pedal cutoff micro switch.

Stephen

Except that it turned the unit off.  Brake switch merely turns off the control circuit.