(Sorry, one again NGC) TV antenna advice

[Gliderjohn]

About ready to cut the satellite TV cord and go air only. We live in an area where the broadcast towers are 30-60 miles from our house. All south to west direction. I bought a small boosted antenna to put the toe in the water and I get about 2/3 of the stations (12 out of about 18) I know I should be able to get with the unit mounted directly on the window sill, otherwise cannot really get anything reliably.
Looking at the attic mounted antennas which claim up to a 100 mile+ range. Also, can you use splitters to other TVs? Any suggestions and related experiences would be appreciated.
GliderJohn

[Triple Jim]

I'm a fan of broadcast TV and put my antennas about 65 feet up on a tower.  I don't know if you have antenna restrictions, but outside is better than in the attic.  You should investigate the stations you want to receive and find out which are UHF and which are VHF to decide what type of antenna or antennas to get.  If you amplify at the antenna with a decent amplifier, you can split the signal for more than one TV, but you should do a little math to figure out what your signal level is after it gets down to the sets.  For example, if you have a 12 dB amplifier at the antenna, and lose 6 dB getting down the coax, you're down to 6 dB over the bare antenna.  If you split to one TV, you lose another 3 dB, not counting losses in the splitter, so you don't have much more to lose.  That's a little oversimplified, but the general idea.

We've found that Motorola BDA-S1 commercial cable TV drop amplifiers are excellent and have survived very scary thunderstorms that hit trees very close to them.  They're about $50 or so.  We've had two of  them in operation up on the tower exposed to the weather for quite a few years now.  Having the amplifier at the antenna is best for signal to noise ratio.

[StuCorpe]

My antenna's are in the rafters of my garage. There is a lower signal there than outdoors but no deterioration of the antenna from exposure to all of the snow and ice we have here. Definitely need the larger (deep fringe) antenna and a preamplifier. Inside the house I use a 4 outlet distribution amplifier that has a very low (6 Db) gain but all four output signals are the same amplitude and isolated from each other. I have never had cable or satellite in my house. The antennas in my garage are 20+ years old.

[Wayne Orwig]

You will lose a good bit of signal inside the attic. Outdoor is best in a weak signal area. I wouldn't plan on a 100 miles from an in the attic antenna, but then I'm used to very hilly terrain.
Height is important in hilly country. In Kansas, it may not be as critical. Still, start as high as is practical. Keep in mind that more cable also means more cable loses.
With the distance you mention, I would go with a good antenna AND amplifier. You can probably split the signal after the amplifier and not lose much.

[canuguzzi]

Before you waste time and money on amplifiers which is what they often end up being, wasters, contact the folks at antennas direct (dotcom) and really find out what you need.

I went the route if amplifiers, this and that booster, putting antennas up high, big waste of time.

Got a DB8 antenna at 15' and got stations 70 miles away and I have big redwoods and plenty of hills between me and the stations. Best thing I ever did regarding the cord cutting, talk to people who really know.

Save your money and time and reduce frustration.

Antenna threads are like an oil thread. Give them a call and then can call up your address and tell you what to get. Lots of resources on their site too. Stay away from voodoo.

[Wayne Orwig]

Send me a PM if you need more info about amplifiers.

(Says the EMC engineer sitting in front of a Rohde & Schwarz ESIB26 EMI test receiver attached to an HP 8447D amplifier, and using various ETS Lindgren antennas.)

[twowings]

One word:  MOHU (comes with amplifier)

https://store.gomohu.com/

[stick]

I'm a fan of broadcast TV and put my antennas about 65 feet up on a tower.  I don't know if you have antenna restrictions, but outside is better than in the attic.  You should investigate the stations you want to receive and find out which are UHF and which are VHF to decide what type of antenna or antennas to get. [deleted]

If I'm not mistaken, all broadcasts now for TV are UHF only.  FCC did this about 10 years ago...and all are HD, correct? 

I was going to try too make a cute antenna and try it.  Maybe then upgrade to a good unit, depending on what I get for reception.

[LowRyter]

If I'm not mistaken, all broadcasts now for TV are UHF only.  FCC did this about 10 years ago...and all are HD, correct? 

I was going to try too make a cute antenna and try it.  Maybe then upgrade to a good unit, depending on what I get for reception.

I think so.  All the extra channels and HD, I think it's all UHF now.   I live in town, but I have small loop antenna (perhaps 6 or 7 inches in diameter) that I hide behind the TV and gets dozens (all) of the local channels.

[PeteS]

Most all the new stations are UHF but they are not all HD. The stations you used to get on ch2-13 are still VHF. That may change as the FCC is trying to get stations to sell that band so they can resell it to cell phone and other services.
I still have the largest Winegard antennna they make on my roof with a rotor. Its fairly flat around here but I still only get stations as far as 90 miles away. In line amps help especially if you are going to split off the signal to more than one TV.

Pete

[StuCorpe]

No, all TV channels are not UHF, there are still VHF stations on the air. Not all stations on the air are digital. I still watch 2 NTSC (analog) stations. The analog stations are low power stations and have not been forced to switch to digital yet. This was just recently delayed once again with the discussions about repacking the spectrum again. When they (the FCC)does that everyone will probably have to buy new TV sets again as they are discussing changes in the modulation that are not compatible with current receivers. The FCC is becoming like the rest of Washington and has way to many lawyers and not enough engineers.

[LaMojo]

Other than some low power stations, most have made the shift to UHF which have the advantage of multiple digital "channels" within a station's allotted frequency.  (Ex. 10.1, 10.2 etc).  The main disadvantages between VHF and UHF is that  VHF is more "line of sight" sensitive, that is, anything within the path of you antenna and the transmitting antenna degrades the signal much more than the lower frequencies within VHF.  Also, the old analog TV could receive a degraded signal with noise and still present a viewable picture whereas with a digital receiver, once the signal degrades to a certain threshold, the TV blanks out the signal completely.  No fading.

What all of this means is, if you expect to receive stations beyond a 50-60 mile radius -reliably - you need a good outside UHF antenna, the bigger the better and mount high as you can ( a 30" push up  pole works well) with an amplifier at the antenna to improve the signal to noise ratio and a rotor to aim the receiving antenna to the transmitting antenna.  Study what stations you may can receive in your area and their network affiliation and don't over spend on an antenna system just to receive a lot of duplication.  tvfool. com is a good source to help to see what is available in your area.

In picking out an antenna, don't be fooled by manufacturers claiming digital, HD, etc as all antennas work the same way by generating minute electrical voltages by intercepting power transmitted by the stations and has nothing to do with what is carried on the signal. 

[PeteS]

Not true, at least in my area which includes 9 stations in a 100 mile radius. The old Ch 2, now 2.1 is still VHF. Same for the rest that used to be in the VHF band. Only the added stations like 2.2, 2.3 are UHF. If you can in fact receive a station that is more than 80 miles away its likely to be VHF. Its rare in most areas to get UHF stations that far away.

Pete

[mtiberio]

go here, http://www.terk.com/
put in your zip ode, and it will tell you what direction to point for every channel

[Gliderjohn]

Thanks to all for the info. Looking at the term site all my towers are SSW to W of my house, all at about 40-45 mile distance. So guessing I should not have to worry about rotating it? After the comments here thinking I should probably do an outside mount with a good boosted antenna. That all only costs about what one month of satellite is costing me. Looks like a good time to change. It appears I should be able to receive 20 channels.
GliderJohn

[Triple Jim]

Thanks to all for the info. Looking at the term site all my towers are SSW to W of my house, all at about 40-45 mile distance. So guessing I should not have to worry about rotating it?

The higher gain antennas have a pretty narrow aperture, much narrower than the spread from SSW to W, so if you start out without a rotator, you should probably be prepared to get one if you're not happy with the results.

[Dilliw]

Send me a PM if you need more info about amplifiers.

(Says the EMC engineer sitting in front of a Rohde & Schwarz ESIB26 EMI test receiver attached to an HP 8447D amplifier, and using various ETS Lindgren antennas.)

So can you tell me what the sonic impact is of using an SMPS to power the Nelson Pass Amp Camp Amp?  His words: "Get over it – it works fine."