Can I borrow $500,000-$800,000 to buy this bike?!? - LOL (NGC)

[JJ]

CROCKER #8  LEGENDARY AMERICAN MOTORCYCLE FROM THE WHEELS THROUGH TIME MUSEUM TO BE AUCTIONED BY BONHAMS
 
Lowest numbered Crocker ever to be auctioned heads to Januarys Las Vegas motorcycle auction
 
 22 December 2016  San Francisco  Bonhams is thrilled to announce the addition of another rare motorcycle to be offered alongside the already impressive list of rarities at its annual Las Vegas auction.
 
The 1937 Crocker Small Tank  serial number 36-61-8  comes from the renowned collection of Dale Walkslers Wheels Through Time Museum.
 
Called as the Duesenberg of motorcycles, Crocker is the definitive American motorcycle  handmade, powerful and fast. Very much a Hollywood hot rod bike, Crocker was created in and shaped by the culture of pre-WWII Los Angeles, California, by former Indian distributor Al Crocker. When it debuted in 1936, the upstart founder brazenly challenged world dominators Harley-Davidson, boasting of superior technology, performance, handling and raw power. As the story goes, Al Crocker famously advertised that if any of his bikes were ever beaten by a stock Harley, he would refund the owners money. No refunds were ever requested.
 
As a bespoke machine, each Crocker was made to the specifications of its buyer. This expensive and time-intensive approach meant that quality remained high but production output low. Total Crocker numbers never exceeded more than 125 units before World War II forced the firms closure, and today only around 50 of those units are accounted for, making Crocker motorcycles extremely rare.
 
After fading into relative obscurity for half a century, two major events transpired that vaulted Crocker to the consciousness of collectors worldwide. First, the Guggenheim Museums groundbreaking 1998 exhibit The Art of the Motorcycle prominently featured a Crocker (owned by famed auto collector Otis Chandler). Then, the seminal 2006 Legend of the Motorcycle Concours dElegance presented Crocker as a featured marque with a record-breaking 20 examples on display. The attention provided by these two events  highlighting the marques unique history, success and rarity  suddenly made Crocker one of the most desirable and expensive motorcycles in the world.
 
What makes Crocker #8 even more special is the fact that this is one of the believed seven surviving Crockers constructed with the famous hemispherical heads. Furthermore, this is the earliest made Crocker to ever be offered at public sale. Estimate is $500,000-$600,000.
 
Also from the Wheels Through Time Museum are a further five pre-war American motorcycles:

    1910 Harley-Davidson Model 6A
    1914 Excelsior Model 7C
    1915 Harley-Davidson 11F
    1936 Harley-Davidson EL Knucklehead
    1938 Harley-Davidson WLDR

Bonhams seventh annual Las Vegas Motorcycle Auction will take place Thursday, January 26th at the Rio Hotel & Casino.
 
For more information about the consignments from the Wheels Through Time Museum, or any of the other exceptional vintage and classic motorcycles to be offered, visit bonhams.com/vegas.




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[JJ]

Such magnificent American-made machines!   Rolling art at its highest form!

Here are a few more I photographed back in 2006 at Half Moon Bay, CA at the Legends of the Motorcycle Show. :1:

[Lannis]

I can remember seeing a nice Crocker for sale in Hemmings around 1979 for $10,000.

Of course, back then, $10,000 was just as far out of sight for me as $500G would be now, so I guess that's OK.

Lannis

[leafman60]

I haven't been to Wheels Through Time in a few years.  Last time there, Dale (owner),  took me to his shop and showed me his rebuild projects.

I believe, at the time, he had 2-3 Crockers.

They must be getting tight on money to make them sell the listed bikes. 

He also used to have a collection of valuable motor cars including a Duesenberg that he offered to take me for a ride in  (!). I understand that he also sold the Duesy a while back. 

I'm not sure the museum is producing a lot of cash flow and he has children there with families so maybe this is behind the sell-offs.  Don't know.  May be misplaced speculation.  However, for a museum to sell of such rare and valuable bikes is noteworthy. 

[JJ]

I have met Dale several times, and his son Matt.  Good people!    They attend the auctions in Vegas often. 

Visited their museum last year in Maggie Valley.  Fabulous and well done! :1:  They have quite a collection.  He mentioned at that time they were not taking any new bikes...because they have too many!! 

In the end, one can only ever just be a "caretaker" for a rare Crocker like this...

[Lannis]

I haven't been to Wheels Through Time in a few years.  Last time there, Dale (owner),  took me to his shop and showed me his rebuild projects.

I believe, at the time, he had 2-3 Crockers.

They must be getting tight on money to make them sell the listed bikes. 

He also used to have a collection of valuable motor cars including a Duesenberg that he offered to take me for a ride in  (!). I understand that he also sold the Duesy a while back. 

I'm not sure the museum is producing a lot of cash flow and he has children there with families so maybe this is behind the sell-offs.  Don't know.  May be misplaced speculation.  However, for a museum to sell of such rare and valuable bikes is noteworthy.

He's got to have SOME kind of turnover, based on Steven Wright's "You can't have everything.   Where would you put it?"   

I think that if I had 3 Crockers, I wouldn't have any problem selling one to free up some space and dollars to buy something that maybe I don't have ANY of ... ?

Lannis

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Your local Mafia will probably make the loan but will take some serious collateral.

[LowRyter]

Look out for ol' Dale



he'll run over ya on his Crocker

[Lannis]

  Your local Mafia will probably make the loan but will take some serious collateral.

Maybe a nice Crocker?

Wonder if the appreciation would make the payments?

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Lannis, that's the financial advice that has made wall street and real estate moguls rich and great. 

I am sure it would work for us.

[Lannis]

Lannis, that's the financial advice that has made wall street and real estate moguls rich and great. 

I am sure it would work for us.

It's also made a lot of regular people prosperous too, including the majority of this list, I dare say.

For example, I might borrow $100,000 to buy a run-down house in an area of nicer houses, fix it up a bit, sell it in a year for $120,000, pay the $5,000 interest out of that, and have $15,000 to buy a new California 1400 with.

It's where the term "Make Money" came from.

So I'm thinking borrow $500,000 to buy the Crocker (which is collateral for the bank), pay $50,000 in interest over two years out of the retirement fund, and sell the Crocker for $700,000 in 2019 as it appreciates like a Shelby or a Hemi.    Put $150,000 in the bank.

You don't have to be a "mogul" or a "robber baron" to "make money" like this.   Lots of people have done it.   Leverage a little bit to make a lot ....

Lannis

[Guido Valvole]

Crocker's engineer/machinist/fabricator Paul Bigsby not only created much of the bikes, he later went on to other ventures -- possibly the first solidbody electric guitar (best-known example made for Merle Travis), which was a major influence on his friend Leo Fender, and then the Bigsby vibrato tailpiece. "Genius" doesn't even begin...
cr

[johnr]

You know, I don't believe I've ever seen a Crocker in the flesh. I would like too.
When It comes to rare American bikes though I have a friend that has an indian parked up just inside his front door.

It looks a bit like this one.


I can't remember now what year his one is but he did tell me that it was one of 6 built of which 2 still exist. His is one of them. God knows what its worth.

He reckoned that he had had it up to about 95mph.

[oldbike54]

You know, I don't believe I've ever seen a Crocker in the flesh. I would like too.
When It comes to rare American bikes though I have a friend that has an indian parked up just inside his front door.

It looks a bit like this one.


I can't remember now what year his one is but he did tell me that it was one of 6 built of which 2 still exist. His is one of them. God knows what its worth.

He reckoned that he had had it up to about 95mph.

 John , that is a board track racer , and if your friend owns one of the two extant , he is indeed capable of buying your lunch on occasion .

 Dusty

[johnr]

John , that is a board track racer , and if your friend owns one of the two extant , he is indeed capable of buying your lunch on occasion .

 Dusty

  Well that he is Dusty, though he has never done so. He has treated me well over the years though.

[LowRyter]

It's also made a lot of regular people prosperous too, including the majority of this list, I dare say.

For example, I might borrow $100,000 to buy a run-down house in an area of nicer houses, fix it up a bit, sell it in a year for $120,000, pay the $5,000 interest out of that, and have $15,000 to buy a new California 1400 with.

It's where the term "Make Money" came from.

So I'm thinking borrow $500,000 to buy the Crocker (which is collateral for the bank), pay $50,000 in interest over two years out of the retirement fund, and sell the Crocker for $700,000 in 2019 as it appreciates like a Shelby or a Hemi.    Put $150,000 in the bank.

You don't have to be a "mogul" or a "robber baron" to "make money" like this.   Lots of people have done it.   Leverage a little bit to make a lot ....

Lannis

sure.  if you want to equate speculating on the appreciation of a motorcycle with real property that draws rent (i.e., income), then....

.....I can say is go for it.   

[Lannis]

sure.  if you want to equate speculating on the appreciation of a motorcycle with real property that draws rent (i.e., income), then....

.....I can say is go for it.   

I wish I had the nerve.   I've got friends who are now pickin' and grinnin' on top of a pile of money that I'll never have, that DID take these kinds of chances ... and it paid off.   Good judgment trumps luck every time.

Lannis

[LowRyter]

I wish I had the nerve.   I've got friends who are now pickin' and grinnin' on top of a pile of money that I'll never have, that DID take these kinds of chances ... and it paid off.   Good judgment trumps luck every time.

Lannis

....and I know a civil servant that moved from Okla City to Monterrey Ca and wanted to purchase a condo with a no principal mortgage in 2007.

[wymple]

I read about Crocker, he quit making bikes to make parts for the military in WW2. Harley didn't like his speed. and refused to sell him wheels. He used a 3rd party to get them. That's how I remember it, anyway. Crocker was the fastest and everyone knew it, especially Harley.

[Aaron D.]

I wish I had the nerve.   I've got friends who are now pickin' and grinnin' on top of a pile of money that I'll never have, that DID take these kinds of chances ... and it paid off.   Good judgment trumps luck every time.

Lannis

I don't know, being lucky sure seems a bit better! That and wisely picking your parents.

[LowRyter]

I'm in your camp Aaron.

Most of us have to work hard but good luck seems to be a determining factor. 

[Lannis]

I'm in your camp Aaron.

Most of us have to work hard but good luck seems to be a determining factor.

Well, you "make your own luck" to some degree.   You've got to work hard, but you have to be smart about it too.

Borrowing money in order to make more profit than the interest costs you, or making equity investments in successful companies, are time-honored ways of making the money (that we work hard to earn) multiply itself.

On the other hand, buying lottery tickets, not showing up for work, maintaining an outside woman, getting a divorce, or borrowing money for things that come apart are all BAD financial tactics, although many people seem to favor them, from what I can tell when I look around ... 

I do know one thing - investing in old collector bikes, hypothecating an increase in value, only works in the upper echelons of vintage bikes.   Especially if you ride them!

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Lannis, there's an adage we might all agree, "the harder I work, the luckier I get."