GuzziTech PC5 for Cal 1400?

[toaster404]

I see with interest: http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/guzzitech-power-commander-v-information.2686/  As much as I would like to have a low-resistance intake and exhaust, plus the $1000 full setup Todd offers, and full suspension redo, that's simply not going to happen. 

So I am wondering whether just the PC-V with 0-2 optimizer would be worthwhile.  The illustrations in the thread referenced above show nice fuel-air ratios for other MG bikes.  Certainly the 1400 is running amazingly lean.  Plugs are extremely clean, with white insulators, but show no visible sign of overheating.  I interpret that and the way the machine runs as indicating it's right on the cusp of too lean, on average. 

I do not know how the PC works.  However, the description suggests that it relies upon the 0-2 signal and adjusts dynamically below 40% throttle. I ride below 40% throttle almost all the time. 

If that is the case, then I suppose I could open up the intake air flow a little without issue.  Is this correct?  I am surprised at its breathing limitations!!!

Suggestions extremely welcome.

Thank you 

[oldbike54]

 O2 optimizers , oh this will be good 

 Dusty

[flip]

 

[pete roper]

My opinions of these dangerous pieces of junk are well known. As for the PCV? It might be useful if it was used by someone who knew what they were doing. Personally I'd wait until there is a reader/writer option for the 7SM.

Pete

[toaster404]

My opinions of these dangerous pieces of junk are well known. As for the PCV? It might be useful if it was used by someone who knew what they were doing. Personally I'd wait until there is a reader/writer option for the 7SM.

Pete

Mr. Roper:  Your opinions are not well known to me. 

Note that I have a recent fuel map and have checked everything I can.  I will be visiting a real Guzzi mechanic with all the gizmos soon, and get everything checked "officially."  Fortunately I don't have any banging or weirdness at this point - the engine is now running very smoothly, just clearly has more to offer and is floating along at the almost uncomfortably lean state.  Better with the fuel map change I got in the fall. 

I see that in 2009 you apparently purchased one of Todd's systems..  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=29470.0 

One of your 2010 posts states " If you wish to radically alter the performance of your machine you will need to have some means of re-mapping the ECU. There are several options available and Todd Eagan's PCV-Autotune package certainly seems to be the most highly developed and dedicated currently available. Many people though can't or are unwilling or unable to justify the expense of such a unit and what I am trying to do here is to just offer some advice on how to get the best from your 'stock' machine with nothing more than basic modifications such as an aftermarket pipe and alterations to the airbox."

However, by this year at http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82484.0 you don't like the 02 optimizer, which is part of the PC-V system marketed by Todd.  So something has happened to sour you on these. 

Do keep in mind that I can't really read every Roper post from 2009 to 2016. 

In this same thread, ITsec informs "While there's some well-noted difference of opinion of the appropriate techniques and relative merit (and difficulty) of specific approaches, you will be far better served by either focusing on the current hardware and modifying the ECM programming (Guzzidiag methods) or going whole hog on the hardware approach using a PV-V and AutoTune with a wideband O2 sensor.

The O2 optimizer is a brains-free device that simply modifies the information the O2 sensor sends to the ECM, tricking it into a broad-based bias to richen the mix, regardless of load, speed, throttle position, or any other factor."   This is much more explanatory. 

So I am attempting to understand what the issue you seem to feel is completely obvious and common knowledge is.  Something other than conclusory statements. 

I will be keeping my stock pipes, restrictive as they are.  Especially if I cannot remedy the lean conditions.  The engine would like to pump more, but it is quite strong as is, and would be stronger with more appropriate mix.  The airbox seems more restrictive than I would have anticipated, but may well be designed to match the exhaust.  So the thing most in need of adjustment is the black box of the ECU or ECM or whatever it's called in these things.  I now interpret that "fooling" the thing with an add-on isn't ideal.  But is it sufficient to make my rather pedestrian riding easier?  I ride at less than 40% throttle pretty much all the time, being more the smooth grand-touring type fellow than the roll-on roll-off brake-hard roll-on type. 

Suggestions?

[pete roper]

Explanation sent.

Pete

[ITSec]

Toaster - thanks for taking the time to read up a bit on this, as I think there are some very good threads if you can get past the technical back-and-forth.

A lot of this technology was developed to solve problems that do not exist on more modern designs. For example, before the existence of Guzzidiag and the investment of effort made both by its developers and by key members of the Guzzi community (like Beetle and Pete), there were few choices to deal with the (then) poor maps available for the bikes of the time (like my 2008 Norge). So what Pete said in 2009, and what I did to my bike, were valid for that time. I started with a PC-V and O2 Optimizer, which helped, but I learned a lot and moved on to replace the optimizer with the Autotune and a wideband O2 sensor. For me, and for my bike, and for that time, that was a good solution.

Fast forward to now. We have Guzzidiag, we have tested and proven maps for various needs and riding styles, and we have a lot more knowledge. If I (as I plan) get a Stelvio NTX in the next few months, will I put a PC-V on it? No - even though that solution serves me well on my current bike. I don't need to spend that money, because I can use the work so generously donated to the community by Guzzidiag's developers, and Beetle, and Pete, and all those others.

However, Piaggio has thrown a curve ball back at us all (they're not alone, the same is being done by other manufacturers like Ducati, etc.). The newer bikes use ECMs that (so far) are not readily capable of being modified through Guzzidiag and similar tools. Experimentation is expensive, since a mistake can 'brick' an ECM, at a significant cost.

What should you do? I can't say. What I (and this is just my own opinion, worth exactly what you pay for it) would do in this situation is consider whether I am solving a 'problem' or a 'preference' If it's a problem, I'd try to work with the dealer. If it's a preference, I (repeat disclaimer here) would sit tight and wait for the inevitable update to Guzzidiag and try that when it becomes available. If it still doesn't deal with my needs, then I'd look at the PC-V - but only with the Autotune; the O2 sensor is (in my view) too limited.

As always, this is my opinion only, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror are closer than they appear. I like and respect both Pete and Todd, and value both their perspectives - and for me, this is never about personalities, it's about making the choices that will help us enjoy our bikes.