no joy in Alternatorville

[azguzzirep]

So, last night after work then two hours working in the garden I got back to my EV.

I checked the battery and it showed 11.7v. I started it and turned on the headlight and it still read 11.7v. I revved it to 2k remand got 12v. I revved it it to 4k rpm and got about 12.5v.

Lucky for me this is Germany and there is a Bosch repair shop even in my little back water town😀

Tom

[Tom H]

If you have the time to try this? Disconnect the negative lead at the battery and charge it fully. Then let it sit overnight and then see what it reads.

JMHO is that it sounds like the alternator is working since you do get more volts as the RPM comes up. I have seen "new" bad batteries that act like the charging system is not working.

Good luck!!
Tom

[Old Jock]

I'm ASS-umming its the old Bosch 3 phase charging alternator

Have you done resistance checks on the rotor and stator?

Have you disconnected the 3 main yellow wires and then with the engine revving to 3-4 K checked the open circuit voltage between these wires?

Have you checked for worn/dirty brushes and checked the slip rings are also clean and the brushes sit snugly and freely on said slip ring?

As TomH said have you absolute faith in your battery and has it been fully charged off bike before beginning checks?

You could also short  DF to D+ on the regulator (do that at low RPMs no more than 2K) this full flashes the generator bypassing the regulator.

If you have tried all these apologies, but there are lots of reasons the bike will not charge other than the alternator

John

[azguzzirep]

John, thanks . Most of those I have not done because of lack of time and a place to do it.😕

I want to look at the alternater to see its condition.

The battery is only a couple  months old.

[charlie b]

I could not tell mine was bad by looking at it.  Even the brushes still looked good after 70k miles.  The key was to measure continuity across the windings (after disconnecting all the wires).

[Wayne Orwig]

So, last night after work then two hours working in the garden I got back to my EV.

I checked the battery and it showed 11.7v. I started it and turned on the headlight and it still read 11.7v. I revved it to 2k remand got 12v. I revved it it to 4k rpm and got about 12.5v.

Lucky for me this is Germany and there is a Bosch repair shop even in my little back water town😀

EV?
Bosch?

What bike is this?

If it was 11.7V and the bike started with it that low. Then it went to 12.5V, which implies it is charging, at least a bit. I almost suspect your meter.
Go measure a car battery. See if it gives good numbers there.

[John A]

Full field it as John suggests, DF to D+ , that by passes the regulator and the alternator will be at full output. You'll probly find that the regulator has shit the bed, a common occurance on those.

[Old Jock]

I don't know the EV I am assuming the OLD BOSCH 3 PHASE ALTERNATOR NOT THE SAPRISA ALTERNATOR

I'm doing more ASS-uming and presumably you have the dreaded red charge light glowing steadily when the bike is running.

If so the first things I'd do is whip off the Alternator cover and examine brushes and slip ring condition. If any doubt replace the brushes and make sure all is good there

With the ignition on (switch the kill switch to "Off" to prevent feeding voltage to the coils) remove the Alternator cover, remove the DF wire on the alternator, and check on the wire side the voltage from wire/connector to frame, it should be 12-12.7 volts same as the battery voltage. When you do that the red charge warn light should also extinguish. If not then the problem lies elsewhere, start checking connections and continuity as per the wiring diagram

Next I'd charge the battery with a charger till its fully charged and after about 30 minutes from charging measure resting voltage. You should see around 12.5-12.75 volts

Remove the plug with the 3 yellow wires off the alternator, get your voltmeter, place it on AC, start the bike and measure on the alternator side the open circuit voltage across the 3 lugs on the Alternator stator. 1-2, 1-3, 2-3. At around 3-4k you should be seeing something like 30-40V AC but whatever the figure, it should be the same on all the phases.

The bike will obviously not be charging when doing these checks.

If you are getting good readings then the fault lies elsewhere. If its not then I'd repeat the exercise with the DF to D+ shorted across the regulator (in effect shorting the regulator out of the loop). Still nothing then I'd be pulling the alternator off for resistance checks, if it was nothing before but now registers voltage then its more than likely the regulator.

You could just do as John A suggested and that is bypass the regulator doing the D+ to DF short on the regulator, but don't rev the bike high (at a guess not much more than 2k and only for as long as it takes to do the checks)

These checks should not take long to do and are easier than starting to just pull the alternator, either way all are pretty simple

Just how I'd start to tackle it.

OMG & Kiwi Roy are the real experts............ .............more of a gifted amateur myself

Good Luck

John   

[JoeW]

An EV should have a brushless Ducati style alternator. I agree with previous comments suspecting a battery. Charge the battery or take it to your local electrical shop and have it tested. If you want to test the charging system on that bike, unplug the 2 yellow wires, take note of their condition I've seen these melt due to high resistance. Attach an AC volt meter to the 2 wires coming from the alternator, start bike, rev engine and you should see 30 to 50 volts AC on your meter. That AC voltage!

[Old Jock]

Yup if its a Saprisa

As Joe is spot on, even easier to check if its working or not as it does not require an external feed

As he also states VOLT METER TO AC VOLTS

[azguzzirep]

I don't know the EV I am assuming the OLD BOSCH 3 PHASE ALTERNATOR NOT THE SAPRISA ALTERNATOR

I'm doing more ASS-uming and presumably you have the dreaded red charge light glowing steadily when the bike is running.



Good Luck

John   

No. The light goes off when running .

[Old Jock]

As Joe states and I think I have got it wrong the EV uses a Saprisa alternator not the old Bosch system

The Bosch charge warn light is fairly reliable when its working its out when the light is on its not

The Saprisa system warning light (from what I have read) can be flaky and taken from the combined regulator/rectifier

First charge the battery with an external charger when its fully charged let it sit for 30 minutes then measure the voltage you should be seeing something like 12.5-12.75 Volts.

Your original symptoms sound to me like your battery was partially discharged and when you conducted these checks you would not get the 13.5 or so volts expected because, the battery is partially discharged.

The battery acts like a reservoir in the system

The battery needs to be fully charged in order to do checks otherwise you will obtain misleading information

Second thing is do as JoeW suggests, it might be the alternator but the reg/recs have a hard time on a permanent magnet alternator.

That's because unlike the old Bosch 3 phase system which regulates the generator output the Saprisa just gives balls to the wall output the whole time, although output does rise with revs. So the reg/rec has to get rid of that extra output and that means it has to dissipate it as heat.

JoeW's check should prove beyond any doubt whether the alternator is working or not and is a check that is independent of the battery voltage. Further trouble shooting requires the battery to be fully charged and up to snuff.

John

[Wayne Orwig]

No. The light goes off when running .

An EV uses the DUCATI ENERGIA PM system, NOT Bosch or Saprisa.

SO WHAT BIKE IS THIS?
Have you verified that the meter is correct?

[Two Checks]

Very first post says it's an EV.

[Kiwi_Roy]

An EV should have a Ducati Energia regulator, the headlight must be On for it to work.
Will also benefit from a proper ground to the regulator case, just a short wire or Aluminium strap from the case to a timing cover screw.
Make sure you have a 5 pin relay in the Start relay slot.
Clean the ignition switch

Heres a sketch I did of the wiring around the relays, note the headlight relay going away to the regulator.

I say again, without the headlight on the charging is turned OFF
And to make matters worse the idiot light is also fed from the headlight so No Charge light.

[Old Jock]

My apologies for the mis-information

Told you though OMG and Kiwi Roy are the experts 

I've learned something I never heard of a system that needs the headlight on to get the generator to work, that is just strange, although looking at the wiring diagram I see that's the case

John

[ejs]

My EV do not need headlight on to charge.
Last year the regulator failed somehow.
Had to have 3500rpm to stay green on the led volt indicator.
Svapped it with a cheap regulator for Ducati. Bought on Ebay.
Could not get the chargelight to work, so made a litle red led that goes off above 12.5v charging.
Now back to green from 2000rpm

[Wayne Orwig]

Very first post says it's an EV.

It also states that he is going to a Bosch service center.


If we don't know WHAT it is, there will be tons of mis-information.

[Kiwi_Roy]

It also states that he is going to a Bosch service center.


If we don't know WHAT it is, there will be tons of mis-information.

You're right
On reading the post again the headlight was on and charging weakly, I have seen that with one diode open circuit.
Easy to test with a diode tester, each yellow to red should read about 0.5 Volts

First of all he should tell us what he's got.