Early Tonti Horsepower

[PeteS]

Ok, I ran a stripped down 85 Cali 2 at the one mile standing start LSR track in Ohio. Stock gearing and the engine was stock but no mufflers and revised carb jetting.. Made four runs between 116-117 MPH. The bike may have went a few MPH faster with a longer run.
  My 650 Triumph is a dedicated naked frame LSR bike holding a few speed records...Speeds are 125-128 MPH ,the bike is lower with less frontal area than a Guzzi. The Triumph on the dyno makes 55 rear wheel HP and 46 ft lbs of torque...
 You can't compare different dynos and an inertia type "DynoJet", the most commonly used for bikes, will give slightly higher power readings than a "load" dyno like Superflow or Mustang.
 So...I would say my 950 cc Cali 2 made about 50 rear wheel hp, or 55-57 at the flywheel..
 

Rough, what are the dates for the Ohio LSR. Let me know if you plan to take your Triumph(s) down again. I'd like to take the LeMans down see what it will do. A number of period road tests clocked it over 130 in stock trim. Not sure mine will go that fast but would bet 125 is in the cards. With a fresh motor (now 25K miles old) I am pretty sure it would top 130.

Not a road test but references one.

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/1976-moto-guzzi-850-le-mans.aspx

Pete

[Rough Edge racing]

Rough, what are the dates for the Ohio LSR. Let me know if you plan to take your Triumph(s) down again. I'd like to take the LeMans down see what it will do. A number of period road tests clocked it over 130 in stock trim. Not sure mine will go that fast but would bet 125 is in the cards. With a fresh motor (now 25K miles old) I am pretty sure it would top 130.

Not a road test but references one.

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/1976-moto-guzzi-850-le-mans.aspx

Pete

 Pete, the next Ohio race is  9-30 through 10-2   I most likely won't be there because my junk is apart right now......It's 250 bucks to race...You need to safety wire the axles and have a lanyard kill switch, a full face helmet with a 2005 or newer Snell rating or European equivalent and full leathers that zip together with stitched metal zippers....The website is here...http://ecta-lsr.net
/
 This may be the last Ohio race.....The town of Wilmington Ohio was devastated 6 years ago when a large air freight company left town,6000 were laid off...They left a nearly new 10,000 foot runway to the town as a consolation prize....East Coast timing is on a month by month deal with the town to use the runway...Now Amazon Fulfillment is close to closing a deal to use the runway and bring needed jobs....The runway will be listed as active again making use for racing vehicles near impossible under FAA rules...
 ECTA may wind up in Arkansas at an old SAC base...It's all uncertain....But  the SAC runway in Maine is a great place to race and a 1-1/2 run....End of this month  http://www.loringtiming.com/
 
   Pete, around 1992 I bought a well used  Lemans 1 from a guy in Honeoye Falls...On 390 south of Rochester I got into it some Harley guys and held the Guzzi wide open for a really long time....The instruments were unreadable but I say it was 130 MPH...

[Rough Edge racing]

 Oh Pete....You have to make it to the LSR track.....It's easy to go fast, this is my vibrating old Triumph doing 125 MPH at Ohio with no more drama than getting on the expressway   

      https://www.flickr.com/photos/75289626@N08/15430128095/in/dateposted-public/

[PeteS]

I think I have all the bases covered regarding helmets and leathers. Not sure its worth 250 bucks though. Maybe I can talk one of my LEO friends into borrowing a radar gun and head out to 490.

Pete

[Trogladyte]

I loved my old T3. The motor felt very torquey, but I honestly doubt there was more than 50bhp meeting the tarmac. It pulled well to 400rpm, but it didn't like spinning up more than that - it would, but it just made more noise.

My LeMan 3 was very different. It had been used for road racing in Italy when I bought it as a "Q" plate import. It had 950 kit, extended sump, gear timing, 40mm DelOrto pumpers, and a Lafranconi system. That felt much more powerful, although I'd be hard pressed to guesstimate the output. It was not as quick as the Speed Trifle that came next - and that was claimed to be 106, I think. So I guesstimate over 80. 

[Rough Edge racing]

I think I have all the bases covered regarding helmets and leathers. Not sure its worth 250 bucks though. Maybe I can talk one of my LEO friends into borrowing a radar gun and head out to 490.

Pete

   Think of the bragging right when the BS er's start swapping lies about top speed you can whip out your officially timed speed receipt .  

[swooshdave]

   Think of the bragging right when the BS er's start swapping lies about top speed you can whip out your officially timed speed receipt .

Timed Speed Receipt: $250
Look on your bench racing buddies faces: Priceless

[Moto]

Rough, what are the dates for the Ohio LSR. Let me know if you plan to take your Triumph(s) down again. I'd like to take the LeMans down see what it will do. A number of period road tests clocked it over 130 in stock trim. Not sure mine will go that fast but would bet 125 is in the cards. With a fresh motor (now 25K miles old) I am pretty sure it would top 130.

Not a road test but references one.

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/1976-moto-guzzi-850-le-mans.aspx

Pete

Here are MIRA road test results from 1976 (Lemans) and 1975 (T3), the most authoritative I've been able to find.



So the table shows about 123 mph, two-way average, for the LeMans, and nearly 117 for the T3. My T3 revs well right to redline, and once went 116 (one-way), as near as I could figure from later mile-post calibration (pre GPS). Maybe not too surprisingly, the 850-T3 was a bit faster than the vaunted, but smaller, 750-S3, in the MIRA tests.

So I doubt 130 was reliably measured for the original LeMans, though I'd like to see more evidence.

Contemporary horsepower measurements (outside the factory) are as rare as hens' teeth.

Moto

[PeteS]

Nice chart. It show the LeMans they tested ran a 14 sec 1/4er at 99 mph. Mine has a close ratio gearbox with very high first gear (almost as high as second on the standard gearbox) and ran 13 flat at 103. Somewhere the the timing slips exist but I haven't seen them in years.

Pete

[Moto]

Nice chart. It show the LeMans they tested ran a 14 sec 1/4er at 99 mph. Mine has a close ratio gearbox with very high first gear (almost as high as second on the standard gearbox) and ran 13 flat at 103. Somewhere the the timing slips exist but I haven't seen them in years.

Pete

I don't doubt you. I'll bet your LeMans isn't bone-stock, which is what was tested. The last column in the table, by the way, was a racer of some sort, based on a LeMans, with 10.5:1 compression and a hot cam. It did an 11.8 second quarter, at 112.

The article mentioned that some publications had reported stock LeMans I top speeds of 130 mph, but one-way, with a tail wind. It concluded by saying the LeMans is clearly a 135-mph bike, meaning after suitable hot rodding.

The magazine that published the original test results in the 1970's was one of the big British ones, The Motorcycle, maybe (I don't recall now). The retrospective article including the original results was written by an original road tester for the first article, John Nutting, and appeared in Classic and Motorcycle Mechanics, October, 2001.

By the way, I can't figure out what version of a "V1000" appears in the table. It doesn't perform very well. Probably a Convert?

Moto

[Matteo]

   Think of the bragging right when the BS er's start swapping lies about top speed you can whip out your officially timed speed receipt .

Rodekyll was clocked by an LEO going over 40 in reverse on his trike. 😆 I guess that makes his Guzzi the fastest backwards.

[rodekyll]

43mph in the controlled puddle-of-pee-reverse-gear benchmark.  One way (wasn't interested in the other way).  Rain, no tail wind.

The bike will go faster backwards, but not with me on it.

[oldbike54]

 True story . Circa 1933 Fred "Leadfoot" Bodine , Father of Loyd "Balloonfoot" Bodine (whole nuther story there) set the LSR for going backwards in a French Delage . The car had a separate gearbox for reverse , allowing the use of all 4 transmission ratios in either forward or backwards travel . In an incredible feat of driving , he piloted the Delage to a speed of 120.22 KPH 74 MPH for you Brits and Americans) in reverse , breaking the old record of 6 KPH set by Wilmer (the turtle) Henri in a Trevithick "Puffing Devil" in 1802 when the test team accidentally started the steam powered Devil's engine while backing it off the trailer . Witnesses at "Leadfoot" Bodine's record breaking attempt were amazed when Leadfoot passed by blinded by his driving scarf which had wrapped around his head . Apparently he had neglected to compensate for the reversed air flow 

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

Only sissies wear scarfs in backwards racing.  Real men wear diapers.

 . . .And what's this 4-speeds nonsense?   I did mine with NO gears backwards.  So I win!

[Trogladyte]

Le Mans indicating 70 on the clock is doing 56.4mph! Is that what the chart means? If so,it would explain why my LeMans appeared to top 140 mph. Admittedly it had been breathed on quite a lot - including an extra 100cc. 

[swooshdave]

Le Mans indicating 70 on the clock is doing 56.4mph! Is that what the chart means? If so,it would explain why my LeMans appeared to top 140 mph. Admittedly it had been breathed on quite a lot - including an extra 100cc.

So you're saying the 160mph speedometer on my 850T isn't there because it can go that fast but it's to compensate for the speedometer reading too fast? 

[Moto]

Le Mans indicating 70 on the clock is doing 56.4mph! Is that what the chart means? If so,it would explain why my LeMans appeared to top 140 mph. Admittedly it had been breathed on quite a lot - including an extra 100cc.

Yes!

I believe the T3, S3 and LeMans all share the same basic Veglia instrument (though the LeMans reads higher). Considering the differences in values between the three bikes to be errors, a regression gives a common slope of 0.87, which is the factor by which one could/should reduce the observed reading to get a better true speed estimate. (The linear fit looks appropriate.)

This calculation translates your observed 140 mph to .87 * 140 = 121.8 actual mph. 

Moto

P.S. They all read to 160 mph. I'd forgotten my NOS replacement had a different range from my original. It goes to 140 mph. (From a small block, I think.)

[Rough Edge racing]

Nice chart. It show the LeMans they tested ran a 14 sec 1/4er at 99 mph. Mine has a close ratio gearbox with very high first gear (almost as high as second on the standard gearbox) and ran 13 flat at 103. Somewhere the the timing slips exist but I haven't seen them in years.

Pete

 Generally ,a 100 mph 1/4 mile is around 13.5=13.3 seconds.... The test bike was eased off the line ..............  13 flat sounds about right for a properly tuned LeMans..

[Moto]

... The test bike was eased off the line ..............

You're right! From the article: "I had struggled a year earlier to get the standard Le Mans off the standing quarter line and failed to break 14 seconds...." I should have noted that earlier.