NGC 2004 Subaru fault question

[fotoguzzi]

my kid off at college is dense about cars.. I bought him a 2004 Subaru Forester.. 1 owner with service records.134K..
it has a check engine light on, after a lot of prodding he finally got the code read..P1443 vent control solenoid valve function problem"
this was a month ago so my memory is hazy but google told me that was the solenoid for the evap canister behind the rr wheel under the fender.. looked like a 1 hour job by the youtube video I watched and the valve was about $44. online.
now he tells me "Joey:
   I tried everything you said on the car I didn't get anything figured out so I'm going to follow the same plan I just spent three hours on it I do not know maybe I don't get motors as well as you
   Actually I don't really know anything about motors but I did try everything you told me especially with the fuses as well
Brad:
   status? check engine light on and lighter outlets don�t work? what else
Joey:
   Yeah I checked all that stuff it just says check engine and it still vibrates and shakes a lot when it's idling or not moving and it's in gear

Brad:
   Not sure you should drive all the way here if it vibrates and shakes..
Joey:
   Only when idle


oh yeah ,the fuse thing, the cig lighter outlets don't work but everything else lights up fine..

so my question is "can he drive it 160 miles down here so I can fix it or do I have to go there?"
 
kids..  :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

[oldbike54]

 No idea , but given the chance the vehicle will need to be rescued from the side of the road , it might just be easier to make the trip to where the car is .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

 I'll tell you this much, if it shakes when it idles and the shake is from a constant  misfire ....The front catalytic convertor can overheat ,and possibly damage the secondary convertor... Or it can be nothing really serious...

[fotoguzzi]

good point, I'll check if my eX has a AAA card covering him..

my real problem is timing.. this weekend I have to rescue/repair wife's car. a Tribute that blew the radiator on the way home from cabin. long story but the DR to the rescue!  I never took one pic, shame on me....got it towed to my parents pole barn and will be riding there with a new radiator strapped on back Saturday..

[ITSec]

I'd avoid driving it. Anything that can cause shaking and shuddering as you describe can have an effect on firing and fueling - and lead to other more expensive problems (ask me how I know, from one of my Subarus). The indicated fault is usually, but not always, correct - but it doesn't tell the whole story even if it's honest.

[fotoguzzi]

Brad:
   did the  rough running start when the ch engine light started or are they separate?
Joey:
   They're linked

[LowRyter]

I wouldn't think the common evap failure / check your gas cap problem would cause the engine to shake.  I would guess there would be separate code for a misfire, like a coil pack.

Also has electrical issues too? 

You might check the internet for symptoms associated with the code.

http://www.autocodes.com/p1443_subaru.html
possible causes - Faulty Vent Control Solenoid - Vent Control Solenoid harness is open or shorted - Vent Control Solenoid circuit poor electrical connection   What does this mean?

Possible symptoms - Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)

Read more: http://www.autocodes.com/p1443_subaru.html

[rodekyll]

An aircooled engine with a bad miss will overheat quickly.  I'm working on a '78 superbeetle right now that has some injector issues and it needs a fan on it or it's too hot in about 10 minutes.  I mean so hot it's uncomfortable standing near enough to work on it.  I assume a watercooled one will overheat as well, although not so quickly.  I'd run it 16 blocks, but not 160 miles.  Like the others say, it's inviting major trouble where now there is minor grief.

Vent solenoid could also be part of the HVAC system -- heat, vent, and air conditioning.


$0.02

PS -- if it's still giving fits when I return, I'll jump in on it.

[pat80flh]

Vent control solenoid is used to block off the tank vent during the period when the computer tests for fuel vapor leakage. I have never seen one cause any kind of driveability symptom, other than hard to put gas in tank.

That being said, vibrating and shaking sounds like a completely different problem. Subies can be persnickety about misfires, OBD regs demand a misfire cause the check engine light to flash, to get motorists attention, to prevent cat from melting down. Subarus don't always follow that pattern.

 If it was just the vent solenoid, I'd say drive it no problem. Maybe your best course would be to find a local shop to spend an hour, get the whole story.

  Try a service at IATN.net, shop finder, and beware, college towns are notorious for having clip joints, college students are easy marks.

[charlie b]

Shaking when in gear and NOT moving?  Sounds like a transmission issue.  But, I would not drive it any distance without a good towing service.

Reminds me of my daughter.  Old Datsun pickup.  Red 'EPA' light comes on.  I told her to ignore it and keep driving (it had some kind of carb sensor that got fouled up).  After a few months I ask her about the truck and she says, 'runs ok just another red light keeps flashing'.  I cringe and ask which one.  She said, 'the one shaped like a little pitcher'.  I go out and sure enough, no oil on the dipstick.  I drain almost 1qt out of it and put new oil and filter in it.  It had a weird shaped oil pan with a very small low spot where the pickup was.  If not for that she would have fried the motor.

[rocker59]

I would guess there would be separate code for a misfire, like a coil pack.
 

Red's Expedition acts like that when a coil pack goes. 

[Rough Edge racing]

 There might be several fault codes... depending on what type scanner used and the person using it,  some misinterpretation is possible...
  Our grand daughter had a newer Ford Escape V-6....the engine developed a misfire from a bad coil pack and she keep driving it...One of the front catalytic convertors overheated from dealing with the raw fuel and then it disintegrated inside. The pieces blew back into the secondary convertor causing extreme back pressure and more performance issues...She continued to drive the car until the back pressure caused an EGR failure, burning a hole in the composite intake manifold..The engine then refuses to run...1500 bucks in parts alone to repair it....Then shortly after all that a rod bearing spun because the valve guide seals failed from excessive heat , no one ever checked the oil...Junk car...
 I hear from mechanics this is more common than you think especially with smaller engines.....New vehicle require little maintenance and unknowing drivers run then till the sparks and blue smoke appears............ .

[fotoguzzi]

There might be several fault codes... depending on what type scanner used and the person using it,  some misinterpretation is possible...
  Our grand daughter had a newer Ford Escape V-6....the engine developed a misfire from a bad coil pack and she keep driving it...One of the front catalytic convertors overheated from dealing with the raw fuel and then it disintegrated inside. The pieces blew back into the secondary convertor causing extreme back pressure and more performance issues...She continued to drive the car until the back pressure caused an EGR failure, burning a hole in the composite intake manifold..The engine then refuses to run...1500 bucks in parts alone to repair it....Then shortly after all that a rod bearing spun because the valve guide seals failed from excessive heat , no one ever checked the oil...Junk car...
 I hear from mechanics this is more common than you think especially with smaller engines.....New vehicle require little maintenance and unknowing drivers run then till the sparks and blue smoke appears............ .

revisiting the issue.. He has not been driving it.(much?). I was up in Duluth last week and read codes myself and INDEED there is more than 1 code.. P1443. P0303 & 0304 which is a misfire on 3&4..
the car idles OK (with a knock in the motor, I'm ignoring for now) so if it idles good does that tell anything about condition of the CAT?
oil seems Ok and not mixed with coolant or anything..
so after cruising the web forums on Subaru, many possibilities but w/2 cyl's misfiring leads toward coil pack.. or maybe plugs and wires but I think the coil is first to try, I can get one for $40. or so.. should I just spend that and go back and try it?

2, are the two problems related> evap solenoid causing a fuel issue in only two of four chambers?

[pat80flh]

P1443-EVAP VENT CONTROL SOLENOID RANGE

  The vent solenoid closes when the ecm wants to check the air-tightness of the gas vapor control system. This occurs when ambient temp is 40-80f, tank 1/4 to 3/4 full, cold start etc.  Around these parts months can go by and the ecm won't run an evap test. So the vent solenoid rots. No effect on driveability, if the vent solenoid fails the evap test fails, nothing else.

   The misfire is apparently  intermittent? It idles ok did you drive it? Is it misfiring under load?

I'd be checking the plugs and wires, on a Subi, leaking valve covers will saturate your plug wires with oil, causing misfires.

Catalytic converters die when unburned fuel from a misfire cook off in the catalyst,turning it glowing red and melting all the high dollar unobtanium. This is why a "live" misfire makes the check engine flash, to get the motorists attention, and try and save the cat.

[fotoguzzi]

Thanks, the light does not blink. I will check plug wires and valve covers. It misses under load son says like half the motor running, I didn't drive it cause it was blocked in by others students cars.;

[ITSec]

I was up in Duluth last week and read codes myself and INDEED there is more than 1 code.. P1443. P0303 & 0304 which is a misfire on 3&4..

The 0303 / 0304 codes can also indicate one or more bad injectors - which means that side will be running lean and you will get valve damage if that is the case. Don't run it until you have verified that the injectors are working correctly, since a head rebuild will be between 1500-3000.

[Toystoretom]

If you have 303 and 304 codes you can swap coils (with 1 and 2) and see if the misfire moves. You can pull plugs and see if they if they are wet and smell like gas (this would show that the injectors are spraying gas). I would check the plugs from 3 and 4 and see if they somehow got fouled. In any case replace all the plugs with new.

You can check the compression on all 4 cylinders. It might be that 1 and 2 are good but 3 and 4 are way low. This would indicate that you blew the head gasket. Being a Scooby Do I'm assuming that 3 and 4 are on the same cylinder bank. If you do have a bad head gasket coolant will leak into the cylinders overnight and when started first thing in the morning you will have a severe miss and white sweet smelling exhaust. Coolant absolutely destroys cats so don't run it much.

Keep in mind that trying to diagnose something over the internet or the phone is next to impossible. It might be worth while to tow it to Subaru who probably have seen this a thousand times before. If you take it to Jiky Jack's independent shop you probably won't  learn anything but they will gladly experiment with your money. I am now going to the basement and torture some spiders...

[fotoguzzi]

confused now.. I bought this,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BO9VT9Q/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so there are not 2 coil packs.. all in one according to the "fit this vehicle" at Amazon.. ??

[ITSec]

confused now.. I bought this,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BO9VT9Q/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so there are not 2 coil packs.. all in one according to the "fit this vehicle" at Amazon.. ??

I can't say - my current Subie is a 2006 Baja Turbo with a coil-on-plug kind of setup.