Well, the clutch is now in front of the transmssion, but ........ (new Beemer)

[ohiorider]

I got out for a ride on the 25 year old R100Gs today, and decided to stop off at my favorite BMW dealer, Mathias BMW in New Philadelphia, Ohio.  While there, I sat on the lovely R9t Scrambler with Titanium tank and tan saddle (all of 485pounds curb wt.)  Pretty machine!  About $14.5k  ..... a little more than I have to spend on a new bike.

To the point of this post.  I was thinking that, now that BMW had put the clutch on the front of the engine, life would be all good for the new "wasserboxer."  However, the tech was replacing a burnt out alternator stator. which required dropping the engine, removing the transmission. etc, etc, to get to the alternator!  And the wet multiplate cultch also had to be removed to remove the alternator.  Well, guess there's nothing simple in this life, especially with motorcycles cramming more tech into less space.  To be fair, the Beemer had a lot of accessories tied to the electrical system, which may have contributed to the alternator getting fried.

But, it gave me more appreciation for previous Beemers (and CARC Guzzis) with their externally mounted, belt driven alternators.

[LowRyter]

You might chat with the dealer but I thought the 9T series had the old oil-cooled engine.

Don't know if it has the wet clutch. 

[oldbike54]

 Yep , the R9T is the older motor .

 Dusty

[ohiorider]

I'm sorry I confused the issue.  I realize the water cooled flat twin is not the engine used in the R9T.  That bike uses the last of the BMW DOHC oilhead engines with a dry single plate clutch.  I only mentioned the R9T because it was on the showroom floor, and I had the opportunity to straddle it.  She's relatively light, at 485 pounds.  Beautiful bike.  The engine the technician was working on, however, was the newer water cooled boxer, with wet multi plate clutch mounted on the front of the engine.  That's the one with the alternator located between the engine and the transmission.  And apparently a bitch to access.

[webmost]

I got out for a ride on the 25 year old R100Gs today, and decided to stop off at my favorite BMW dealer, Mathias BMW in New Philadelphia, Ohio.  While there, I sat on the lovely R9t Scrambler with Titanium tank and tan saddle (all of 485pounds curb wt.)  Pretty machine!  About $14.5k  ..... a little more than I have to spend on a new bike.

To the point of this post.  I was thinking that, now that BMW had put the clutch on the front of the engine, life would be all good for the new "wasserboxer."  However, the tech was replacing a burnt out alternator stator. which required dropping the engine, removing the transmission. etc, etc, to get to the alternator!  And the wet multiplate cultch also had to be removed to remove the alternator.  Well, guess there's nothing simple in this life, especially with motorcycles cramming more tech into less space.  To be fair, the Beemer had a lot of accessories tied to the electrical system, which may have contributed to the alternator getting fried.

But, it gave me more appreciation for previous Beemers (and CARC Guzzis) with their externally mounted, belt driven alternators.

I dove into a spline lube on my buddy's K75S last weekend. Talk about putting maintenance items in hard to get at places. Still, a brick splube is not nearly so bad as splubing my R1200CLC. Literally have to dismantle half the bike piece by piece to get at that. Insanity. Now you're telling me BMW went to a wet clutch, where a spline lube would not be an ordinary maintenance item, but they relocated the alternator to the heart of darkness.

[leafman60]

Yes, of all the problems suffered by past BMW's, I don't recall too many issues with the clutch. Still, they went through a lot of mechanical gymnastics to position the clutch up front complete with a shaft inside a shaft to route the power up front and then back again.

I have to say, however, that I have not heard too many bad reports for the new bikes regarding final drive failures, ABS problems and all the other things I used to deal with when BMW was my main ride.  Maybe they are finally getting their act together.

If this trend continues, I make rejoin that fold with a new Boxer some day.

All of these European bikes, including Guzzi, have suffered reliability issues.

.

[lrutt]

Spline lube on my 75/7 was pretty easy. 4 bolts, pry apart about 3/8". Make special brush/tool, dip in moly and reach in to brush on splines. Took about 1/2 hour.

Just another reason to keep my old bikes running till I die, the hell with this new stuff.

[tazio]

I have had conversations with several riders over the years that have WANTED to get
a new Beemer or Guzzi, but would not "pull the trigger" BECAUSE of clutch location.
Seems BMW just called their bluff...

[Triple Jim]

To be fair, the Beemer had a lot of accessories tied to the electrical system, which may have contributed to the alternator getting fried.

A charging system should be designed so that overload doesn't damage it.  If overload did damage it, the system is poorly designed, but there's probably more to the story.

[Sheepdog]

I guess I'm one of those curmudgeonly old Airhead-lovers...I feel the pinnacle for BMW motorcycle development occurred around 1974.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I guess I'm one of those curmudgeonly old Airhead-lovers...I feel the pinnacle for BMW motorcycle development occurred around 1974.

I feel the same about Guzzi! 

[Two Checks]

Hmm...clutch in the front of the engine...like the old Honda CX 500... And it rotated opposite crankshaft rotation.

[twhitaker]

Hmm...clutch in the front of the engine...like the old Honda CX 500... And it rotated opposite crankshaft rotation.

And they put the alternator and the water pump in the 'bell housing'. A coolant leak in ours into the oil was the tipping point and got rid of it.

[oldbike54]

I guess I'm one of those curmudgeonly old Airhead-lovers...I feel the pinnacle for BMW motorcycle development occurred around 1974.

 It's all relative . In 1996 I was in San Francisco doing a full service on a girlfriend's 1970 R60 . Working in a garage , door open , hear a boxer coming down the road , step out and flag him down, he is riding a 1950's R 50 . Inquire as to where a dealer with a good supply of parts for older Beemers might be , he deadpans "Don't know anything about those modern Beemers" 
 Seriously , I remember when the old BMW riders were lamenting the introduction of the 249 series engine , "Those things will never last , chain driven cam , complicated oil filter , who would want one of those pieces of modern junk?" 

 Dusty

[ohiorider]

It's all relative . In 1996 I was in San Francisco doing a full service on a girlfriend's 1970 R60 . Working in a garage , door open , hear a boxer coming down the road , step out and flag him down, he is riding a 1950's R 50 . Inquire as to where a dealer with a good supply of parts for older Beemers might be , he deadpans "Don't know anything about those modern Beemers" 
 Seriously , I remember when the old BMW riders were lamenting the introduction of the 249 247 series engine , "Those things will never last , chain driven cam , complicated oil filter , who would want one of those pieces of modern junk?" 

 Dusty

Fixed it for ya'!

[oldbike54]

Fixed it for ya'!

 To quote Keaton in Mr Mom "220 , 221 , whatever it takes "

 Dusty

[Mark Harpell]

I had a k1200rs, 2000.  Low miles, ran nice....little over a week and the abs light started flashing.....hmmm.. o.k., can still ride without abs, a few days later, oil dripping from the middle somewhere.....hmmm. .ran it down for diagnostic....abs module bad..$3000 ish......ck into replacing rear main oil seal......13 hours labor...$11.00 for the seal......one week later, took a good hit on it but sold it...ouch....not that exciting a ride anyway.......unless its an old R80 or R100 or so, I wont own another....
I will own another Guzzi, though.....

[Mark Harpell]

I guess I'm one of those curmudgeonly old Airhead-lovers...I feel the pinnacle for BMW motorcycle development occurred around 1974.

Agree.....although I loved the R80ST.....shoulda kept.....

[Sheepdog]

My '60 R60 was the bike I should have kept. I miss it more than my '74 Commando.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I rode a friend's 60's 600....it was smooth but very slow with numb handling ...This was 25 years ago ...

[Sheepdog]

That's the one. Only 28 hp, but it would tick along at 70 mph all day long (unless a steep climb intruded). Great gas mileage, simple maintenance, and with a Denfeld solo seat and touring (low) bars it was the most comfortable bike I've ever owned. They were aptly named, "das Gummikuh"...the Rubber Cow. Yes, it lacked quickness and the steering was a little numb, but it was an endearing little bovine.

[Moto]

I guess I'm one of those curmudgeonly old Airhead-lovers...I feel the pinnacle for BMW motorcycle development occurred around 1974.

Thanks for the information. I despised my 1974 R90/6 like no other bike.

You've saved me the trouble of ever considering any later models.

Moto

[ohiorider]

I had pretty good luck with all my BMWs.  Most of them were K bikes, starting with a 1985 K100RS, then a K75S followed by another few K's (K100RS/ABS, 1100LT (hated that bike!), K1100RS (loved it!), followed by a few R1100/1150, and the R100GS that's been around since 1991.  Had no more or no less trouble with these bikes than most others I've owned.

However, I think if Guzzi offered a bike similar to my 1200 Sport in, say, 1990 - 2000, AND I'd been introduced to the brand, I'd have owned more than two Guzzis during my riding career.

I think if today I could jump back on my last K bike (1999 K1200RS), and compare it with my current 1200 Sport, I'd probably choose the Guzzi.

I always have to consider I'm living in a country with very little opportunity to set the bike on 110 mph and run the Autobahn.  Seems like many of the German machines must meet that criteria ...... go fast for long distance.  Of course, Italy has their Autostrada, too, and I have no doubt that the 1200 Sport is capable of three digit speeds for extended time.

[ChuckH]

I just returned from the Hoosier Beemer's Rally in North Vernon, IN.  Decent event, great weather, 138 registered (largest number in the last 20 years), too bad I have an annual conflict between this event and the KY Guzzi Rally.

One of the attendees was riding a quite new R1200RT Watercooled bike.  Not too many miles on it, hasn't even made his first service interval, likes it a lot particularly the suspension system.  However, he already has a water pump leakage problem.  His dealer says they have had several. 

Too bad, no one likes to see a problem occur on the early production units of a new design.

[Mark Harpell]

Clutch in front, alternator in the bell housing...sheesh... .then I run in to this today on my Toyota.....yup, its the starter....its a bizarro world.....

[Ncdan]

In the early 2000's out PD went with the BMW police bikes. Due to a lot of slow precision ridding during training and working things like parades and such they were burning out clutches. At 2000 buck a pop it broke the budget and they went with the ST 1300 Hondas. They recently switched to the Police version Kals.