Missing Seat Tabs on A 86 LM1000

[DSL]

Hello all,

I'm new here to the Forum,  and to Moto Guzzi,  With that said,  I now have a 86 Le Mans 1000 sitting in my shop.  It came to me in a bit of disarray.   An owner before me desired a cafe styling to the the original.   The front fairing removed an missing,  It now has a 8" round head light.  I have ordered a LM1 front fairing from Air Tech.  The rear of the bike is where I am in need of help.   

In stead of re inventing the wheel with a new seat pan, and foam,  I plan on restoring the seat and fender to the original.   All parts are now in my possession,  Including an original seat and a Corbin.  My dilemma is that the rear tabs that are welded to the frame that hold up the seat / Handles have been cut off........

Welding new ones on is easy,  The hard part is getting the height just right. 
SO...  Can any one out there give me the height of the center of the bolt hole measured from the top of the frame?   

In a worst case scenario I plan on welding on the tabs.  Then  attempt  to line up the parts and take a best guess at centering the  holes. 
I have added a few pictures here to tell the 1000 words :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Mike





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[LeRoy]

Do you have all the bolt-on parts needed to mount the original seat and grab handles? I've included the relevant page from the factory Parts Manual and you'll be looking to verify Parts 30-42 or so, including hardware. The second picture is an under-seat shot of my Le Mans 1000. I can get the dimensions you need in another day or so. I expect that you'll need:

1.) Lateral distance between pairs of tabs (although the nubs remaining on your frame and the mating parts should help establish that)
2.) Longitudinal distance to the hole centerlines from an established reference point
3.) Height of the hole centerlines above the frame rail for both the fore and aft pairs of holes

Finally, do you need any further documentation on your bike? Let me know and I'll send you a Le Mans 1000 CD I've compiled with pdf copies of the Owners, Parts and Workshop manuals; images of period advertisements and road tests; useful How-To articles on the Le Mans 1000 and Guzzis in general; wiring harness drawings and a wealth of other model-specific information. Just send me a PM with your name and mailing address and I'll send the CD at no charge. The same offer applies to any WildGuzzi list member worldwide. Similar CDs availalbe for the 850-T, 850 T-3, Convert, G5, California II, California III, 750 S and S3; the original 850 Le Mans 850, Le Mans II/CX 100, Le Mans III, Le Mans IV/V and and a range of other 1970-1980. Same deal: just send me a PM with your full maiing information and I'll send the CD. Worldwide. Free.

[DSL]

Thank you for the response!
I have the hard copies of the parts manual and owners manual. However, I may take you up on your generous offer.
   As you pointed out,  the original tabs are still visible, I should be able to line the new tabs up.  The other information would be greatly appreciated.
I have to check but I think the front side cover tabs are missing too.   If so Those should be simple to figure out.

Ill send a few more pictures in a bit.  I think there may have been other mods to the bike as well. 
Cheers,
Mike   

[DSL]

As I figured,  the front side panel supports are also missing.  The tabs that you see in the pictures are to support LM3 sides. 
These should be simple to figure out the placement and weld back on.  Or even go with the arrangement that is in place with some modifications.

[DSL]

As i get further into this project,  I would like to weld the front side panel support tabs back on as well.
I figure the best wat to measure would be with a square off the seat tabs. To the center of the tab holes.  As well as the distance the holes are from the frame. 
Thank you again for any information or pictures! 
Best regards from Vermont,
Mike

[DSL]

Is there anyone in Vermont that has a lemans 4 or 5 that will let me do some measuring?   
Thank you in advance:)

[wirespokes]

Those front mounts are really pretty easy. Pretty much all you have to do is weld on the tab, place the body work up to it and note where the hole lines up. The body panel sits almost against the tank.

The stock tab has a captive nut, but you could weld one on. Not a big deal. It'll be hidden. I'd think some sort of locking nut would be nice - nylocs might not live through the welding, but there are other styles that should.But still, the original isn't a locking nut and it doesn't seem to come loose.

If you really want me to, I'll measure the distance of the tabs from frame to the hole.

[DSL]

Thanks wire spokes,
The front tabs as you said should be easy to figure out.  A measurement however would be helpful,  if it's not to much trouble. Even a picture with a ruler in place would help.
Le Roy was going to get me the rear tabs,  but I think he may be busy so I'm reaching out for those measurements as well. 
Absolutely no disrespect implied:) to Le Roy!   
Least I forget,  I know this is the wrong time of the year to ask!
Happy holidays to all!
And yes.  I can wait 

[DSL]

 

[wirespokes]

Ok, I'll get the measurements for you.

The rear tabs are angle brackets bolted on. I'll have to check your pix again to see what remains of yours.

I may be able to get you some photos.

Ok, got you some photos, but hardly saw a reason for a tape measure. Besides, my hands were kind of full with the lighting in one hand, camera in the other. As you can see, the pix are pretty self explanatory.

You know, in your position, I'd probably leave the tabs amputated and mount some triangular side covers, a different rear fender and a custom seat - get rid of the swoopy duck tail body work.

[DSL]

Thank you Wire!
Great pictures,  they do tell a lot.  Still would like some sort of measurement.  Even if it was a picture with a tape measure:)
When I picked up the bike,  that was the original owners plan was to do a custom seat.  I have LM 3 covers brackets to hold them and a aftermarket fender.    With tail light.   I desided to at least get the bike back to close to original then in the future I could still modify the seat and utilize the tabs to support a new seat without the duck tail.
This would give the bike better resale as well as keep the rear handles.
Did you ever want to do this modification to your bike?  I would agree that the duck tail on these bikes is a bit over the top and a bit too much plastic for my tast.  With that said,  when on a bike I'm not looking backwards! 
I am keeping the round head light on it,  and installing a LM 1 fairing from air tech.   

[wirespokes]

The dimensions aren't critical - but I'll get them for you in the next day or so. The rear angle bracket has a long mounting slot so it's super adjustable.

I've looked at mine wondering how I could modify the rear without permanently altering anything. It'll for sure require a custom seat, probably a fiberglass pan. Not difficult. But then, to look right, would need a rear fender as well. I think it could be done without hacking the brackets.

Have you figured out how you'll attach the seat?

Will the LM1 fairing fit with the original gauges?

I'm with you - I prefer the earlier LM1 look over the LM4. The V7 Sport is my favorite, of course (along with everyone else).

[DSL]

Had no idea the rear tab had a long slot for adjustment,  that's the one the handles attach too?
I am hoping the LM1 fairing fits!  We will see in a few days as I just got tracking yesterday.   The head light is off a BMW /6. And it's adjustable up and down on the forks if need be.
I didn't figure out the seat attachment accept for utilizing the existing front tabs.  If I did a new seat pan I would have it made out of aluminum.  In fact I was thinking of using the existing original fender as well.  There is plenty of room to mount a new tail light were the plate goes. 

I really appreciate you getting me the measurements!  This whole project is waiting for them

[wirespokes]

The slotted rear bracket is for the side panel. The middle bracket is the seat latch affair. The bar going to the rear (heading off to the right and upwards) is the grab/lift handle.

Guess I'll have to get you some photos of all that as well.

I think the stock rear fender would look odd with a different seat arrangement. It's got an odd shape to it that wouldn't look right. I'll take a shot of that for you as well.

You're right, a new seat could utilize the front mounts - but I don't know the best way to fasten it in the rear. The stock mounting bracket forces the seat up pretty high over the fender. That might be one of the reasons the designers did the whole swoopy business.

[DSL]

OK got it! I have the slotted brackets for the rear of the side panel.  And I see in your picture what you are talking about.
I was thinking if the rear fender was used that the new seat pan would come up over and around the fender.
I agree the fender might not work having the boxy end.  I guess it could be cut.
Here is the my bike with the other fender on it.

[wirespokes]

Here are the photos with measurements. I could get the ruler to stand by itself against the front mount while holding the light and camera both, and I couldn't cut the glare. So I'll just give you the measurement - the hole center is 5/16" from the outer edge of the frame. In your place, I'd put the side panel up against the tank and drill the hole where the panel wants it. Then I'd either tack a nut to the bottom side or use one of those nuts with a sheet metal clip. Speed nut?

I like the way your rear fender looks. It'll be nice with a normal seat, much better looking than mine.

Here are more pix for you...

Maybe not - perhaps I've used up my allotment for the day. It's not giving me the ability to post pix.

You can email me for the pix if you want. terryvrla@hotmail.com

[DSL]

A BIG Thank you to Wirespokes for actually going the extra mile and get me the Dimensions and pictures for the missing tabs!!!   I printed out the pictures and my welder friend was able to get it all fit up just right.  With out the info the project would have been a lot harder. 
Here is a picture,  I will post more as the project moves forward.

As well thank you LeRoy for sending along the disk,  The wiring picture in Color is very useful.




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[DSL]

Here it is, as of this afternoon.





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[DSL]

Here is the finished project.   For the record,  a BMW/6 head light with a LM1 fairing.  The fairing needed to cut open for the larger head light.
 



A big thank you to Wire spokes for going above and beyond and getting me the measurements I needed!  I couldn't have done it without you!!!!   As well to LeRoy for sending me a CD with all the manuals on it.

[wirespokes]

Looking good, DSL. I like it!