Moto Kapputzzi issue, 2009 V7C

[hannibal smith]

Damn the torpedoes, here goes!

2009 V7C - 10119 miles.

Purchased at 8100, bone stock configuration.

Everything gone over and freshed. All fluids, plugs etc. Second oil change at 8268, no apparent consumption.

GT stainless exhaust, and re-flash at 9805. Running incredibly well.

Yesterday morning, I changed default from EU to USA to indicate Fahrenheit.  Yesterday afternoon, turned on ignition, a few seconds later, it went black. Re turned key, all systems normal, she fires. Go 23 miles and visit buddy. Hang out for an hour.

Turn on ignition........... .......full crazy. Lights on, lights off. Maybe turn over, no run or run for 10 seconds. Gets progressively worse with each attempt. Doesn't seem like a battery issue, seems ignition, but all my bikes are vintage, so this ECU stuff is uncharted territory. Leave bike at Park Ranger's place (nice guy, said he's a Triumph man, so he understands!) and get the truck.

This morning I attempt to start, now basically dead, dials do a tiny twitch intermittently, no indicator lights.

Battery is 12.78, and 10.3 on load check (separate tester I have) and I also install a new battery with 13.28 (static) I have awaiting another bike in collection. Same results.

All fuses check out of course.

Funny thing is, I'm not angry or anything, I have plenty of bike experience, and this stuff I just take in stride. If my Guzzi didn't have some issue, I think I would be more worried that I neglected to check something! I wish it wasn't so, but this is a great opportunity to learn more about the marque.

Anyway, I am thinking ignition, but I am not going to start tearing things apart until I get my ducks in a row.

Any ideas?

[pat80flh]

Not big on small blocks, but sounds like maybe a bad ground, at the end of the negative battery cable. Dirty terminals at battery, sometimes pulling the fuses and relays in and out will clean up a marginal connection. (Fuse rotation)

[malik]

Sounds very much like the problem I had with my V7C's ignition. I could get it started by switching the key on, keeping the starter button pressed in, & turning the handlebars from side to side. Played with the wires at the bottom of the ignition, and managed to limp the 4 or 5 kilometers home. When I took the ignition apart, the contacts were discoloured & some of the supporting plastic had melted. There wasn't a spare ignition in the country at the time, but there was a lock set, and for only a few dollars more.

I'd do the above test first, & then, normally, I would re-set the ECU by removing the negative terminal & leaving it off for a while before re-connecting. But as you have already replaced the battery, you've done that.

Next, test the sidestand cut out switch - key on, press in starter, & flick the side stand up & down a few times.
Next, test the kill switch the same way - key on, starter button pressed in, flick the kill switch on& off several times. This has happened a few times with the V7S - seems to be connected to the tip over sensor. Once it catches once & the starter motor coughs, it seems to be good to go. Also note that the tip over sensor on this bike did not re-activate once until it was fully vertical. Half an hour on the side stand wasn't enough. Just saying. The V7C's tip over sensor hasn't been so finicky - the sidestand & several minutes is good enough.

These are the easy things to check. Then there's the ECU relay & it's mount. I don't know how to check that, but hopefully someone will be along soon, and some more with more suggestions. I really hope it's something easy.

Mal

[pete roper]

Mal, I think you're on the money. My stab is the ignition switch. See other thread.

[malik]

Oh, and just remembered to mention, to start the Classic needs to be in neutral with the clutch lever pulled in. I came back after a trip once & forgot that - half an hour of investigation, head scratching & half an hour of fruitless push starting later .....

[hannibal smith]

Thanks- Checked ground, it's good.

My dash is totally dead, sans a minuscule tach arm twitch when keyed on. No MAInT/Odo or anything, its basically dead.

Will reinstall battery, and do the sidestand thing etc. 

[hannibal smith]

Did the jiggly bits. It's deader than a doornail. Zilch. Not even a flicker of lights, or a needle twitch.

[hannibal smith]

From fore to aft, what are the 5 relays?

Thanks

[hannibal smith]

So I unplug the muti-pin connector from the dash. When I plug it back in, you can feel a little internal buzz for a second. It seems its getting juice. I'm beginning to suspect the keyed ignition itself.

I am going to get it unplugged, and attempt to hotwire this thing. Procedure?

BTW- How do you disconnect the fuel break on the tank? Thanks!

[hannibal smith]

Alright- Got the tank off (fitting is hmmmmm, but anyway)-

Accessed my ignition switch connection and used my circuit tester. On or off, no light/sound. Ok, unless I'm on dope, did I find this Guzzi issue? I was expecting something more spectacular than a 2 spade connector.......... ......

[hannibal smith]

TOTALLY disappointed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was merely the keyed (mechanical) portion itself.

I was expecting some complicated stuff. 

Ran a hotwire loop, and guess what! C'mon guys, it can't possibly be this easy!

Now I have to get that ignition off the triple clamp!

[guzzisteve]

On the underside of Tripple tree there is 2 non-tamper screws, cut a slot w/dremel disc and back out w/screwdriver.
Way to go, Good Attitude!! 

[hannibal smith]

Thanks all- Further isolated the issue.

The metal (purely mechanical) portion of the switch is fine. It is in the plastic R2D2 looking switch that merely screws to the mechanical portion via 2 phillips head fasteners. It's even an easier fix yet.

I will try to source just that switch portion, but I seriously doubt I will find it as an independent part number. The part number for my fix is the entire assembly including 2 keys. Since I want to retain a single key for ign/gas/seat, I will just pirate the switch that failed, and retain my original keys.

Assembly part number that looks identical in every regard is GU32782510

[malik]

If you can't get hold of the ignition switch (that's the number) then ask after the "lock hardware kit" 883182. It's not all that more expensive. If you happen across someone in the switch game who can find that little plastic contact base, do let us know. It looks like they are pumped out by the millions, and cost half a pfenning, but which one is it? That's going to be the problem.

To get that snap bolt off (one only on my V7C), I think I drilled a hole & used an ezyout. From memory, it was in firmly, but not tight. Easier to get at with the top yoke off. Used an allen bolt the same as the one on the other side - M8x16.

[hannibal smith]

Thanks all!

Pulled lower assembly apart and really got to the cause. Bad solder joint from day one. It was a "cold joint" and is evident by the atmospheric corrosion. It was merely hanging on by a thread so to speak, and finally vibrated completely off. It's a miracle it functioned for 10,000 miles.

Love an easy fix. 

[not-fishing]

Love an easy fix. 

And a cheap fix       

[malik]

What a save! Love it.

Other tips:
If you don't have them already, all the manuals can be downloaded from thisoldtractor.com.
The MG 750 Yahoo site is an invaluable resource.
There is a different tyre pressure recommendation in the manuals - I have found the 36/36 psi specified in the later manuals to be more on the money.
I get better mileage & road holding out of the Avon Roadrider AM26 & the Pilot Activ than any other.
A known problem is that junction box under the front of the tank on the RHS from the wiring up from the reg/rec. it is known to build up resistance & burn out. If when your riding along the dash instruments go crazy & a little while later your battery runs flat, it's likely to be that. Carry a couple of 12in lengths of wire in the tool kit, and it can be repaired on the side of the road - cut out the junction box & the burnt wires, bridge  the gap with your spare bits of wire, & tape it up - it will get you home.
The best thing you can do for the 2TB V7's is change out the stock exhaust -  Staintunes, Agostinis, Arrows. & Mistrals are the usual substitutes - unblocks/frees up the midrange significantly.
Each time you change a rear tyre, remove the final drive & grease the drive shaft splines - water collects in the swing arm through the boot & rusts out the shaft.
The side stand has a tendency to move downwards all by itself, & activate the cut out switch. Keeping the pivot well lubricated counters this. Stronger springs have been known to work, & bushing the pivot bolt is a long term fix.
The solo seat I find more comfortable than the dual seat, and as it's very cheap, it's worth considering.
The OEM rear rack is a beauty - robust. A little ACF50 on the welds will keep the rust at bay.
The V7C seems to have a noticeable run in point at 15,000 km & another at 30,000 km. By then it's well run in. Not so noticeable in the 1TB models. So you have a way to go before it's really smooth.

Anything else, merely ask. It's a great bike & lots of fun.

Mal

[hannibal smith]

What a save! Love it.

Other tips:
If you don't have them already, all the manuals can be downloaded from thisoldtractor.com.
The MG 750 Yahoo site is an invaluable resource.
There is a different tyre pressure recommendation in the manuals - I have found the 36/36 psi specified in the later manuals to be more on the money.
I get better mileage & road holding out of the Avon Roadrider AM26 & the Pilot Activ than any other.
A known problem is that junction box under the front of the tank on the RHS from the wiring up from the reg/rec. it is known to build up resistance & burn out. If when your riding along the dash instruments go crazy & a little while later your battery runs flat, it's likely to be that. Carry a couple of 12in lengths of wire in the tool kit, and it can be repaired on the side of the road - cut out the junction box & the burnt wires, bridge  the gap with your spare bits of wire, & tape it up - it will get you home.
The best thing you can do for the 2TB V7's is change out the stock exhaust -  Staintunes, Agostinis, Arrows. & Mistrals are the usual substitutes - unblocks/frees up the midrange significantly.
Each time you change a rear tyre, remove the final drive & grease the drive shaft splines - water collects in the swing arm through the boot & rusts out the shaft.
The side stand has a tendency to move downwards all by itself, & activate the cut out switch. Keeping the pivot well lubricated counters this. Stronger springs have been known to work, & bushing the pivot bolt is a long term fix.
The solo seat I find more comfortable than the dual seat, and as it's very cheap, it's worth considering.
The OEM rear rack is a beauty - robust. A little ACF50 on the welds will keep the rust at bay.
The V7C seems to have a noticeable run in point at 15,000 km & another at 30,000 km. By then it's well run in. Not so noticeable in the 1TB models. So you have a way to go before it's really smooth.

Anything else, merely ask. It's a great bike & lots of fun.

Mal

Thanks! I'm loving this bike. It has a balance of sorts that is so pleasant.