Is it the Pilot Road 4s or the steering head bearings?

[ohiorider]

I'm on my first set of PR4 tires.  They currently have 4000 miles on them, with plenty of tread left and no unusual looking tread wear.  I've always run a slightly lighter tire pressure than Guzzi recommends ..... about 37 front and 39 rear.

I took the 1200 Sport out for a 200 mile ride this morning and afternoon, and noticed that the bike takes little or no counter steering effort to change direction, the downside is that the bike seems to require constant attention, vs caster (rake?)  keeping things centered.  I'd be happy if the bike required slightly more steering input.

I ran thru several pairs of PR3s, and don't recall this happening.

I must confess that the steering head bearings have not been adjusted or greased (mea culpa!) 

Tire issues, steering head issues, or both?

Thanks,

Bob

[Idontwantapickle]

How old are the tires? Age is as bad as wear sometimes. I would recommend setting the recommended pressures and riding again. My Norge is very sensitive to tire pressure, 2 lbs low and I can tell immediately. If you are in doubt about the head bearings then it's not a bad idea to clean and grease them. If it has not been done since new then the peace of mind alone will be worth it.
Hunter

[ohiorider]

How old are the tires? Age is as bad as wear sometimes. I would recommend setting the recommended pressures and riding again. My Norge is very sensitive to tire pressure, 2 lbs low and I can tell immediately. If you are in doubt about the head bearings then it's not a bad idea to clean and grease them. If it has not been done since new then the peace of mind alone will be worth it.
Hunter

The tires were installed in April 2016.  Yep ,,,, I should do the steering head bearings.

Bob

[not-fishing]

The biggest improvement I made with my Griso 1100 in steering is when I greased the bearings.

The next time I go at the steering bearings I'm going to replace them with rollers.

[rocker59]

You could try dropping the pressures to 34F/38R.

What size rear is on the bike?  180/55 or 170/60 ???  The 170/60 will steer quicker.

Profile of these tires may be a little "pointy" when compared to what you were using, which would encourage quicker steering.

[ohiorider]

You could try dropping the pressures to 34F/38R.

What size rear is on the bike?  180/55 or 170/60 ???  The 170/60 will steer quicker.

Profile of these tires may be a little "pointy" when compared to what you were using, which would encourage quicker steering.

Rocker, I'm thinking the same thing.  When I owned the 2012 Griso 8vSE, I was surprised when I read the suggested tire pressure in the user manual.  Don't recall at the moment, but remember it being quite a bit lower than called for in the 1200S manual ...... and both bikes weighed almost the same, and had the same size tires.

I'm running a 180/55 on the rear.

[Kiwi Dave]

I was surprised when I read the suggested tire pressure in the user manual.  Don't recall at the moment, but remember it being quite a bit lower than called for in the 1200S manual ...... and both bikes weighed almost the same, and had the same size tires.

I was surprised the same when I purchased my Griso 1200SE.  However, compared with the 1200 Sports (2V), I found the steering too slow, and opted for higher pressures to match the 1200 Sports.

Sorta your situation in reverse, but I'm yet to experience PR4s on any of my bikes, except to fit them to the front on my 1400 Customs, where they tended to quicken the steering (which I liked).

Perhaps you should consider returning to PR3 front or even a PR2.  I'll watch for other comments with interest.

[ITSec]

On my 2008 Norge, I had used the Pirelli Angel ST and then (when they became available) the Angel GT. I was fairly satisfied with the Angels, but good reports on the PR4 and the availability of the PR4 GT (heavier load, longer life rating) made me switch.

The PR4 has very noticeably more prompt handling behavior - they fall into a turn much more readily than the Angels. I've looked at some reviews and other background on the tires, and while they have the same size and proportion by percentages, the Michelins seem to be a more round tire in cross section, while the Angels appear to be slightly more oval. This would make the PR4 every so slightly more ready to respond when a turn is started, at the cost (if noticeable) of being slightly less stable when encountering things like grooved pavement.

I have noticed the PR4s being more responsive in curves and twisties - I have not noticed them being objectionably yanked around by grooved pavement or other irregularities. My only complain about the PR4s is that the (long wear) version seem to lose some of their best handling character even when there is still a fair amount of tread left (say, 30% or so before the bars). It has led me to replace the tires when I could still go a ways further if I was heading into a ride where handling was particularly important.

[Huzo]

Pop the bike on a work or centre stand so it's up straight and the front wheel clear of the ground..
With the 'bars centered, apply a very slight pressure to deflect them and see if they want to resist movement or jump back to centre after slight deflection. If they do, it will be some indication that your races have become pitted and have grooves in them, and will require replacement.
That will give you the symptom you describe.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Just got back from a 2,000 mile 8-day trip on the 1200 Sport with PR4's front and rear. Ran beautifully 2-up and solo, packed with gear. I ran 40 lbs in front and rear and no problems. My guess would be to check the steering bearings.

[rocketman]

Tires!  Try the Pirelli Angel GT's.  I had a short love affair with a 2007 Norge.  That bike would just wander off the road if you weren't paying attention.  Poor suspension.  Didn't keep the bike long enough to experiment with fixes.  My first guess was tires. 

[redhawk47]

Pop the bike on a work or centre stand so it's up straight and the front wheel clear of the ground..
With the 'bars cantered, apply a very slight pressure to deflect them and see if they want to resist movement or jump back to centre after slight deflection. If they do, it will be some indication that your races have become pitted and have grooves in them, and will require replacement.
That will give you the symptom you describe.

Also check for loose head bearings. This method works for bicycles - I don't know how well it works for motorcycles with heavier front ends: With the bike on the stand as above, grab the forks at the axle and push forward and back. If you can feel movement something is loose (don't pull the bike off the stand!). Alternative method: with the bike on the ground and in neutral, lock the front brake and rock the bike forward and back. If you can feel or hear movement something is loose. Maybe bearings, or fork components.

[Huzo]

Tires!  Try the Pirelli Angel GT's.  I had a short love affair with a 2007 Norge.  That bike would just wander off the road if you weren't paying attention.  Poor suspension.  Didn't keep the bike long enough to experiment with fixes.  My first guess was tires.

Nah mate !
There's no hocus pocus surrounding the Pilot 4's. I've just finished 17,000 k in 6 weeks and as you can see there's no unusual wear other than they're a bit flat in the middle.
If the Norge was " wandering off the road" there would have be a more sensible reason. You should'a put 40 psi in both ends and gone looking for the real reason.
Your first guess was not correct.





(Your short love affair was never really love)

[ITSec]

Tires!  Try the Pirelli Angel GT's.  I had a short love affair with a 2007 Norge.  That bike would just wander off the road if you weren't paying attention.  Poor suspension.  Didn't keep the bike long enough to experiment with fixes.  My first guess was tires.

The Angels were definitely better than the Metzelers that the early Norge models came with from the factory. In my view, the PR4s are definitely better than the Angels. They do have a different feel, though.

[Huzo]

In my view, the PR4s are definitely better than the Angels. They do have a different feel, though.

If you say so IT then it's worth consideration.
I've never had anything but Pilots, so I accept your word outright on the "feel" thing, but "wandering off the road" ?   
If you're ham fisted enough, you can make the bike change line by gripping the 'bars like buggery and looking over your shoulder, but you're only paying the price for a lack of finesse.

[Huzo]

Tires!  That bike would just wander off the road if you weren't paying attention.  My first guess was tires.

Maybe the solution all along was to pay attention.
BTW. What was your second guess ?

[Huzo]

The biggest improvement I made with my Griso 1100 in steering is when I greased the bearings.

The next time I go at the steering bearings I'm going to replace them with rollers.

What are they as standard ?

[willowstreetguzziguy]

With TOO LOOSE head bearings... I find the bike will be reluctant to lean in a turn at 50 mph. (Same thing applies with too low tire pressure)

With TOO TIGHT head bearings... the bike will fall or lean too quickly in a turn at 50 mph. (Same thing with too high of a tire pressure)

IMHO... It's the bearings, I'm riding the same tires on the same 1200 Sport with no problems.

[ohiorider]

I don't think the PR3 and PR4 tires differ much in profile or tread pattern, so my issue just may be neglected steering head bearings.  Oh, well, wintertime project.

[Stevex]

Well it's not like it's difficult to check head bearings.
Do you have a steering damper fitted? I had the same sort of problem earlier this year on my Aprilia Tuono.
Traced it to the Ohlins steering damper bushes drying out which made initial movement of the piston very stiff.
Replaced it with the OEM and the problem disappeared.

[ohiorider]

Well it's not like it's difficult to check head bearings.
Do you have a steering damper fitted? I had the same sort of problem earlier this year on my Aprilia Tuono.
Traced it to the Ohlins steering damper bushes drying out which made initial movement of the piston very stiff.
Replaced it with the OEM and the problem disappeared.

No, the bike doesn't have a steering damper.  But I can see where a damper that didn't move smoothly could cause a similar issue.  I can check them, but changing them might mean a trip to a good dealer.  Stuff I might only have to do once, maybe twice, in the life of a bike, generally goes to a qualified dealer.  Routine service (oil/final drive changes, valve adjustments, throttle body balancing, brake pad replacement,)  that's my job.

Bob