This spring I bought the bottoms (not mesh) and have used them a number of times - I like the concept, but have found that the knee/shin armor doesn't stay in place. There is no fly, so do your peeing before your put them on or prepare to pants yourself to find your equipment when the moment is right. I just came back from a short cold ride and the knee/shin armor just will not stay positioned right. I'll keep trying, but so far, not impressed. I wear them under a pair of very heavy "Duluth Trading" fire hose canvas pants and there is plenty of room for wearing the Bohn body armor in there.