Relays for 2013 V7 Stone

[NorthfieldV11Sport]

I have a non-functioning headlight and horn.  The fuses are good, so I'm thinking a relay is shot.  Where the hell are they? Are these available from an auto parts store?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce Stewart
Northfield, MN 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Have you measured the Voltage at the fuses, in particular A, B & C

I have no idea where the relays are located on that bike.

[Kev m]

Jeeez, I would have assumed they were right under the seat, but I've not looked yet.

Let me see if the service manual shows a location.... be right back..

[Kev m]

OK, I'm back.

The service manual doesn't seem to show the relays, at least not list them individually in the component locations etc.

They MENTION 3 relays in a wiring diagram.

1. Starter Relay
2. Light Relay (I've also seen this be called a Light Logic Relay).
3. Injection Load Relay

I think they were supposed to tell us about the location in the wiring harness installation procedure where I found this illustration:



Unfortunately there was no label for 4 and 5. If the label for #2 was correct, that's the back of the ignition coil.

And I'm betting that #5 shows you the three the relays.

If that's correct it looks like it is under the fuel tank, towards the rear of it hopefully.

Later under Starter Diagnosis that photo is repeated with an ARROW pointing straight down to the middle, so I'm guessing that's the Starter Relay.

Looking at Carl Allison's wiring diagram suggests the following (wire colors are guess by actual color I didn't trace them back to where they are actually labeled, so something similar might be right):

Starter Relay - Green/Red, Green/Red, Purple, LBLue/Blue

Light Relay - Orange, Orange (both of these connect together to the light switch, an 02 sensor, and the fuse block), Light Green/White (Light switch also), Yellow/LBlue (ECU)

Injection Relay - Red/White, Red, Green/Red, Blue/Black

The only thing the Horns have in common with the relay is they also connect to the light switch.

Of course the Fuse section says that one 10 amp fuse feeds the stoplight, daytime running light (?) and horns, and another fuse powers the high and low beam headlights

A) Stop, daylight running lights, horn (10 A).
B) GPS installation, low / high-beam lights, passing
(15 A).
C) Control unit, engine kill, starter relay, instrument
panel, injection load relay (15 A).
D) (Battery positive) Instrument panel, turn indicators
(5 A).
E) - (Battery positive), MIU G3 Control unit (5A).
F) Main fuse, coil 1 and 2, injector 1 and 2, lambda
1 and 2 (30 A).

[pyoungbl]

Yes, relays are under the tank.  It's pretty simple to remove the bolt securing the tank, slide the tank back an inch or so and lift the rear of the tank to gain access to the relays.  To remove the tank entirely you will have to disconnect the electrical connection to the fuel pump, disconnect the fuel line, and disconnect two vent lines.  Be advised, disconnecting the fuel line can be a real PITA.

Peter Y.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kevin,
         Perhaps you could identify which is which

Light relay (5) powered by fuse B with key On

Start relay (6) powered by fuse C with key On

Injection Load relay (28) should have power with the key Off or On

Are the relays really 4 pin, can you get a part No to cross reference?

[Kev m]

Sorry, ran outta time and had to get the kids.

I'll take another look tomorrow and try to answer those questions unless someone else wants to download the wiring diagram from Carl's site and give it a go.

Yes, the relays APPEAR to be standard 4-pin parallel terminal layout, but that's from an illustration and not photo so I can't be sure.

[Kev m]

Good morning all.

For starters this thread should have this:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif

From here (THANKS GREG, THANKS CARL!)

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html

Now Roy, in the cold light of morning, I'm confused at what you were asking me to do:

Perhaps you could identify which is which
Light relay (5) powered by fuse B with key On

Start relay (6) powered by fuse C with key On

Injection Load relay (28) should have power with the key Off or On


Are you asking me to trace the power for the circuits on the wiring diagram or just identify which relay is which?

I've given wire colors for the later already, and I've got a guess below this. But if you're asking something about the circuit, please clarify (or, I suspect you're much better than me with a wiring diagram, see link above). 

Are the relays really 4 pin, can you get a part No to cross reference?

From the Guzzi parts manual:

AP8224462 Relays 12V/30A

(Though ironically the link on Harpers takes you to this: STARTER RELAY 12V20A GRISO-NORGE-BREVA - maybe they're the same and one is mislabeled or maybe they are different)?

I know schematics don't have to show actual placement on the bike, but the arrangement of the relays in the parts schematic SUGGESTS they might be laid out FRONT TO BACK - Light, Starter, Injection. At least that agrees with the service manual that seems to show the Starter Relay in between the other in the Starter circuit testing section.

So it's either LIGHT, STARTER, INJECTION or maybe INJECTION, STARTER, LIGHT. And that should be easy to figure out from the attached wire colors.

Thanks HARPER'S!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kev,
        Sooner or later someone is going to have to troubleshoot a V7s electrics and will be asking which is which, I figured you were the guy to identify them.
I just listed the power source for each one but as you say it might be easier to go by wire colours.
As to identifying the make/model, do you think it would be easier to just purchase a spare from the dealer, I doubt you would need more than one.

I source my relays from www.digikey.com

Power relays over 2 Amps
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/relays/power-relays-over-2-amps/1049447
 
I applied some filters to narrow it down a bit
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv258=210&FV=fff40010%2Cfff80367%2C1140381%2C1200002%2Ca700003%2C16040020&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

[Kev m]

Ah gotcha. Well, I don't have time today to pull my tank up today and identify em for sure. But really with the info we've left behind the next guy who needs to (or the OP) should be able to do that pretty quickly.

As for spares, I would think any 4 parallel pin (2 and 2) 20 or 30 amp automotive relay would probably do in a pinch.

But again, as soon as someone has to pull one they can report back.

[NorthfieldV11Sport]

You guys are the best. I don't post here often, but I have always been impressed with the breadth of knowledge here and the willingness to help other forum members. Now, I've got to get that tank off!!

[sib]

From what I can determine, all 3 relays are identical, 12V 30A NO (normally open), MG part number AP8224462.  Replacements include LI L5A and Mitsuba RC-2208 (some of these seem to have an extra metal tab).  They're available on the usual MG mail order sites for about $25-$30, and on ebay for about $20-$25.  To determine if any of yours are defective, you can swap them around.

[Kev m]

Also remember when testing that I believe the headlight doesn't turn on until the bike is actually started on these models, yes?

[sib]

Also remember when testing that I believe the headlight doesn't turn on until the bike is actually started on these models, yes?

Yes, the motor has to be running.

[NorthfieldV11Sport]

Replaced the front relay and the headlight is on!!  The horn was a separate issue - just a corroded contact in the switch. Thanks for all of the helpful info...

[Kev m]

Huzahhh, so we've identified the relays

Front-to-Back they should be:

1. Light
2. Starter
3. Injection

BTW, I was going to mention that I was a skeptical about the relay being the cause of BOTH since the horn and lights are fed by different fuses.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The new to me Griso has the L5A relays
I didn't find the exact one but Digikey sell Panasonic CA relays that have similar specs
These have a rubber holder
255 2575-ND  $8.39 each
I suggest you group together and buy these to save on postage

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electric-works/CA1A-12V-A-5/255-5272-ND/4692187
Digikey have a US and a Canadian branch, be sure to select the right one for your location

BTW Form A,B & C describe the contacts
A Normally Open
B Normally Closed
C Changeover (1 NO, 1 NC)

If you also have a cube relay e.g. HELLA 01RA001 it's a bit special, there are many other relays that look similar such as Bosch 0332 019 103, they are not
The HELLA has a diode inside in series with the 85 terminal, this used to be called the safety diode (2000 era spine frames) it's function is to ensure the ECU doesn't get power if you accidentally put the battery in backwards.
I like the way they used to do it better, they had the diode in the loom allowing all relays to be the same.
The Old P8 ECUs had the diode inside the ECU
I'm not sure why they would revert back to a special relay.

This relay info also applies to Norge, Griso, Breva, Stelvio

[Kiwi_Roy]

Bump