Concerns for heated wear power demand on old Cali

[BOAT]

Inspired by the wisdom brought forth by the recent "Cold Hands" post, and the recent deep freeze conditions in East Virginia, I'm just about ready to spring for some heated gloves (for starters). My question : How much heated gear power demand can a 1995 Cali handle? Gloves only? Gloves and socks? The whole shebang with jacket liner and pants?

Do some brands perform more efficiently?

Thanks for the help.

[Kiwi_Roy]

My old Cali II would easily handle 1 load, vest or gloves at full power but to run both it would struggle unless I was running at highway speeds.
Consider an upgrade to an LED headlight, that will free up about 3 Amps.

[Lannis]

For a few hundred bucks, you can end your weak-arsed Guzzi alternator problems forever, and not worry about how many lights or how much gear you hook up, with a EuroMoto Electric alternator.

Here's a thread from earlier this year discussing it ... it's worth it, even for a cheapskate Guzzi owner ...

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=89663.0

Lannis

[Wayne Orwig]

1995 Cali has the PM alternator system like the EuroMoto kit already.

Electric gloves use very little power. Those are not a problem.

I used driving lights, electric gloves, AND a vest, on my 1994. I had very few issues at highway speeds. A few times I even had two electric vests on. Stuck in traffic is a different story. Easy to manage by just installing a voltmeter and monitoring it. In traffic, just turn down the electric vest and driving lights.

I eventually designed a circuit to automatically dim my driving lights at low charge voltages. That helped a lot when in traffic.
http://hogmountain.asuscomm.com/utils.html#lightcontrol

BTW, the twin taillight is prone to melting, and a large current suck. If you upgrade that to LED, it helps a noticeable amount.

[Lannis]

1995 Cali has the PM alternator system like the EuroMoto kit already.

It might at that.   I was going by the fact that EuroMoto sells the upgrade for Saprisa and Bosch alternators on Guzzis through 1995; maybe the last years just include the Sport ... ?   Or maybe someone would like the 450W peak instead of the 350W peak of the later Guzzi alternators.

At any rate, I've been spoiled by the upgrade, and by the 950 WATT (!) alternator on my new Triumph.   Whether my lights will stay on or not should have been a concern that went away with carbide lights ... 

Lannis

[Kiwi_Roy]

One of the problems with using heated gear, the electrics are already 20+ years old so it's due for a proper going over, I would consider some upgrades like a separate fuse and relay for the heated gear rather than overload the existing relays and fuses, It's good to have the heated gear on a switched supply so you don't accidentally leave it on while the motor is off and not charging.

While you are about it you may want to boost up the headlight with relays bypassing the handlebar switch

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1996_California_1100i.gif
Looking at Carl's schematic it seems as though the alternator is permanent magnet and regulator is a Ducati Energia, perhaps you could confirm that.

[sidecarnutz]

I've got the Euro Moto 450 kit in my Cali III. Huge difference over the old stock alternator. But DO check your old wiring for burnt up or corroded connections! I found a few on my Cali III that needed attention.

[Wayne Orwig]

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1996_California_1100i.gif
Looking at Carl's schematic it seems as though the alternator is permanent magnet and regulator is a Ducati Energia, perhaps you could confirm that.

In 1994, the California models went to the Ducati Energia. for a short time in early 1994, it was a weaker model. Then it got bumped by about 5 amps by 1995. Guzziology has the two of them graphed. In about 2004, the regulator was changed. Though I believe the alternator and the output power remained in the 25 to 30 amp range. All of them, including the new regulator, are susceptible to overheating the connections and should be inspected.

[Tom]

I've got the Euro Moto 450 kit in my Cali III. Huge difference over the old stock alternator. But DO check your old wiring for burnt up or corroded connections! I found a few on my Cali III that needed attention.

That's probably happened to my Strada.  Haven't had the time to dive into the wiring to figure out the problems.  Euro MotoElectrics upgrade is worth the money for electric gear.    

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/searchresults.asp?Search=moto+guzzi

[BOAT]

Many thanks for the suggestions and previously-unknown-to-me pointers on Guzzi electrics. You guys are awesome and generous with knowledge.
I plan to start small w/gloves, go with the led bulbs (RAZIR??), and go from there w/ additional gear. I confess wiring an accessory relay and improved circuitry is beyond me at this time.

Onward through the fog.........

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

One of the problems with using heated gear, the electrics are already 20+ years old so it's due for a proper going over, I would consider some upgrades like a separate fuse and relay for the heated gear rather than overload the existing relays and fuses, It's good to have the heated gear on a switched supply so you don't accidentally leave it on while the motor is off and not charging.

My Gerbings gear came with it's own fused harness which hooks directly to the battery. Most other brands hook up the same from what I've seen. I guess there are some that plug into an accessory outlet built into the bike (BMW), but those are in the minority from what I can see.

Heated gear is usually disconnected completely (and therefore has no chance of running the battery down) as soon as the rider arrives at his destination and gets off the bike. 

[ohiorider]

I've ridden with heated vest and hand grips for several years.  As we got into October, the vest would always be carried in a saddlebag, and, combined with the grips, often made the cool afternoon ride home very pleasant.

I first experienced heated grips and vest on my 1985 BMW K100RS.  The 460W alternator on that bike seemed sufficient to power the bike's basic electrics, plus the vest and grips.  The dealer fitted this bike with the accessory grips and Powerlet-type outlet, which was also handy to use as plug in for the battery charger.

A later purchase, 1991 R100GS, had a much smaller alternator, outputting approx 280W.  It had factory heated grips, and a factory Powerlet-type socket.  This bike's battery was (I recall) larger than the K bike's, being 20AH or greater.  I never had an issue with this setup, though the bike always seemed grateful for a battery charge when I got home.

[Tom]

Doesn't hurt to do a maintenance charge to the battery on a regular basis. 

[Lannis]

Doesn't hurt to do a maintenance charge to the battery on a regular basis.

Don't have to do that on any of my cars, from the 60 HP one to the 150 HP one, each of which has 10 or 15 lights on it, and one of which has electrically heated everything ...

I can understand marginal electrical capacity on an old BSA or Norton or a trail bike.   I can't quite figure out why the manufacturers that were competing with Gold Wings and such never got the idea about lights and heaters, and continued to supply 280 watt and 300 watt and 350 watt alternators on touring bikes for years ... Not a good place to save money!

Lannis

[Tom]

Don't have to on cars.  Motorcycles are different but like you said the main problem is that motorcycle charging systems aren't up to the bigger electrical demands imposed by their owners.  At least older bikes.

[Kiwi_Roy]

As Charlie pointed out if the heated gear is wired direct to the battery it automatically gets unplugged when you get off.
If your charge system is a bit weak just get into the habit of starting the bike before you plug in.
Gloves are probably the least load.
Add a relay and power controller later when you add a vest.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've got the Euro Moto 450 kit in my Cali III. Huge difference over the old stock alternator. But DO check your old wiring for burnt up or corroded connections! I found a few on my Cali III that needed attention.

Absolutely. I've done several barn find and just older Guzzis now, and the old electrical system *needs* all the electrical connections taken apart, corrosion cleaned up, and given a shot of DeOxit.
For instance:
2017-03-15_04-09-48 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
This is *not* uncommon, and it's just waiting for a dark rainy night to make itself known.. 

[sidecarnutz]

Thanks Chuck! That looks just like what happened years ago to my 97 Cali. Ran like crap until I cleaned up and silicone greased the bad connections.

[Wayne Orwig]

Thanks Chuck! That looks just like what happened years ago to my 97 Cali. Ran like crap until I cleaned up and silicone greased the bad connections.

Now it is ruined.
 

[Tom]

 :1:

[sidecarnutz]

Now it is ruined.
 

How is dielectric grease going to "ruin" it? In the mid 90's even car manufacturers were putting it into electric connections to prevent corrosion. I have hd nothing but good luck in using it.

[Idontwantapickle]

How is dielectric grease going to "ruin" it? In the mid 90's even car manufacturers were putting it into electric connections to prevent corrosion. I have hd nothing but good luck in using it.

Dielectric grease is used to prevent arcing in high voltage high current connections that are sheathed. Auto electrical systems are low voltage and in the particular case of an old Italian bike they need all the help they can get! Deoxit and a stiff brush and some petroleum jelly would appear to be the best solution in this application.
Now if you need to lube the boot on your HT plug lead, that would be the place for the dielectric grease.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

Hunter

[Wayne Orwig]

How is dielectric grease going to "ruin" it? In the mid 90's even car manufacturers were putting it into electric connections to prevent corrosion. I have hd nothing but good luck in using it.

They used it on high energy ignition systems. Still do I think. They used to use it in distributer caps. It changed the spark pattern and reduced RFI.
But they also found that it would outgas, and travel LONG distances, where it would damage any contacts, including those inside of sealed devices like relays.

[sidecarnutz]

Wow.... Ya learn new stuff in this forum! Good to know.