My first Lemans, impressions and comments....

[brider]

Remember that post a while back where I asked how important the paintjob was on a LeMans IV? Here it is, and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Some of you may have seen the CL ad and moved on thinking it a sketchy deal, but I talked to the owner quite a bit and decided to take a gamble. Got it for less than asking price, I think with the shipping (FL to CT) I could flip it and break even. That was my goal, being a risky, long-range deal.

Wife is not happy  , and I have not yet committed to keeping it, so for now I'm just riding it back and forth to work to "get to know it".

History: Owner got it from a friend whose dad owned it, and it had not been ridden in YEARS. He did not go into detail of what he had to do, but it sounds like he had to dial it in like you would imagine ( fluids, carb cleaning, timing and points, brakes, etc). He put new Pirelli Sport Demons on it. Those rear shocks don't LOOK like the stock color, but they're probably stock (have an air valve on top). Along the way he decided he didn't like the "white" color, so he rattle-can painted it the smoke gray color. I gently told him that some people consider the white the most attractive color for this model, myself included. He didn't get the decals right, but that's fixable, as is the paint.

However, notice the red on the inside of the lower scoop fairing. Something doesn't add up.

He said the carbs may need a bit of tuning, so I'm sure he went into them. He was NOT a Guzzi guy, but had some classic Nortons, and knew how to turn a wrench.

The bike only has 18.5k miles on it, and is otherwise straight and in-molested. It starts and idles and runs very well, clutch is smooth as silk, but the rear brake is not very effective; doesn't feel like it needs to be bled, but then again, the last non-linked bike I rode was my Eldo, so I don't have much perspective.

When the shipper picked it up (that's when things always happen), the ignition switch suddenly quit working properly, so he had to hot-wire the coils to the battery + post with an alligator clip. I have to pull the seat to un-clip it to stall the engine when I get to work/home. I have a new switch ordered (PO sent me the $$ for that, nice guy).

Riding impression: WOW, what a different feel than my Cal II! It's a big adjustment to keep my knees all bunched up and try to torque it around with those short bars, but I figure it out after a few hundred feet and so far I'm not doing too bad. It's sooooo much fun riding a 5-sp again, and it's very hard not to go 80 mph everywhere (my commute is 90% highway). Solid as a ROCK, my fastest was 90, very easy to do. Suspension just amazes me, and again, this is coming off a Cal II. My short road to the highway has a curve that I take like a motocrosser on my Cal II, picking the best line thru the holes and debris left by the winter's frost heaves. I forgot about this the first run on the LeMans, and my line (I also learned the difference between the two bikes steering characteristics) took me straight thru the middle of the bad stuff. I clenched my teeth and braced for some pounding, but it rode over the mess VERY smoothly. Can't imagine how much better it could get when really dialed in.

A few things that are difficult for me right now: Wearing a full-faced helmet, the mirrors, and the turn signal switch. Lack of peripheral vision is creeping me out, and the mirrors and lack of little fish-eye blind-spot mirrors that I always use make me VERY reluctant to change lanes, which in turn makes me dangerous on the road. I can add the blind-spot mirrors, so maybe that will help. But the wind noise @ 80 mph make it impossible to hear the engine, and I don't think it's a major flaw of my helmet. Is that one of the benefits of aftermarket exhaust?

I was surprised how well the wind blast kept weight off my arms at highway speed. Never rode a sportbike before (can you tell?  ).

That turn signal switch: Who was the person that signed off on a design that requires a vertical input to generate left/right output? What natural logic leads one to "just know", without looking, that up is left and down is right? why in the hell didn't they install a left-right toggle? I'll bet 80% of the time I was signaling in the wrong direction when I DID change lanes, adding to my danger at highway speeds. If I keep this thing, that switch has to go.

Whaddya think?

[wirespokes]

The signal switch isn't so bad. You'll get used to it soon enough. The old airhead beemers had the same style switch so I'm used to that, it just took me a little while to get comfortable with my 87 LM switches.

Here's a little logic that might help - In a right hand turn, the left bar comes up, so lift the switch lever up. Do the opposite for left turns. Before long it'll be instinctive and you won't have to think about it.

Angle the mirrors outwards. Make it so you have to wiggle around a little to see straight back. Like you say, seeing to the side is important - more important than what's directly behind. Too often when we need to change lanes or move over there's only time for a glance in the mirror. Need that data RIGHT NOW!

When the carbs are set up right, you should get close to 50mpg on the highway. Know what you mean about 80mph! And funny thing, that's when I've gotten the best mileage. The way the cam is set up, mileage is shitty below 3500 rpm. I've been through the jetting issue with mine and converted to the Ed Milich recs.

Were your brakes de-linked? If that's the case, there aren't many options for a smaller rear master. There was a 12mm master for the V50 or V65 or something like that (it's a drop in fit), but it's NLA. I'd like to have one, but haven't found one yet. You can get the 12mm rebuild kit and have your master sleeved down to match. Me - I've gotten used to it, and will most likely just leave as is.

I don't find the bars to be narrow, really, but still have a problem with the limited steering - wide turning circle.

[Idontwantapickle]

Wife is not happy  , and I have not yet committed to keeping it, so for now I'm just riding it back and forth to work to "get to know it".


However, notice the red on the inside of the lower scoop fairing. Something doesn't add up.

He said the carbs may need a bit of tuning, so I'm sure he went into them. He was NOT a Guzzi guy, but had some classic Nortons, and knew how to turn a wrench.


Riding impression:  it's very hard not to go 80 mph everywhere (my commute is 90% highway). Solid as a ROCK, my fastest was 90, very easy to do.


I was surprised how well the wind blast kept weight off my arms at highway speed. Never rode a sportbike before (can you tell?  ).

That turn signal switch: Who was the person that signed off on a design that requires a vertical input to generate left/right output? What natural logic leads one to "just know", without looking, that up is left and down is right?

Whaddya think?

I think you are a genius for buying a LeMans 1000!!
My wife was not happy either! I consider that a good sign that I made the right choice! 
Search here for carb setup or PM me and I'll tell you how I set mine up.
It is great fun to wind it through the gears up to cruising altitude. Like you I tend to "enjoy" the throttle quite a bit!
The turn signal switch is stupid, you are correct. Just try to remember that Left is Lower, both start with L.
One more thing: Don't sweat the paint job, you can't see it from the saddle!

Hunter

[brider]

Both suggestions for getting over my turn-signal dyslexia make sense, and I will use both, thanks.

Forgot to mention that it came with no sidestand. I've read that the OEM was a dangerous contraption, so I won't sweat it (for now). I almost never use the sidestand on my Cal II anyway.

The brakes definitely were de-linked. I don't understand the need for a smaller rear master if the brakes are de-linked; please explain?

Regarding the rear brake and new tire: I wasn't SURE the tires were new until I rolled to a downhill/right-turn stop at the end of my street (there isn't a section of straight/level road ANYWHERE in my neck of CT, kind of drives me nuts sometimes) and was mad at the insufficient rear brake, so I kind of stomped on it, and it skidded the tire. No modulation at all. The indications on the rotor are that there isn't much clamping going on.

[Chuck in Indiana]

"just know", without looking, that up is left and down is right?

Uhhh are you sure about that?  I think you'll find that left is down.

The LM5 is a great highway burner. Flickability is not in it's vocabulary, though. Locomotive is more like it.. and it feels like it is on rails.

You can probably rebuild your original ignition switch so you won't have to have separate keys for the ign and fuel tank. It's a simple switch, easy to take apart.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Original rear shocks would have been Koni 7610 "Dial-A-Rides" which don't have any air fitting.

[jas67]

As for the turn signal switch, think if like the turn signal in a car.   Down is left, up is right.

[brider]

As for the turn signal switch, think if like the turn signal in a car.   Down is left, up is right.

Pure genius.....I take back what I said about the Italian designer of the switch, it's the same as a car! Doh!

Chuck is right, it feels exactly like it is on a rail @ 80 MPH, and doesn't want to "flick" very easily to the next lane with a countersteer.  I also forgot to mention that it has the optional 18" front wheel with cast-steel-looking triple clamps, that I think Charlie identified in a post I found in Search, which were part of a kit for that year (it's a '86).

I couldn't imagine road-racing with this geometry, now I'd like to feel what it's like to ride the 16" wheel.

I believe the front tire is a 100/90-18, rear is a 120/90-18.

[Turin]

My wife was none too pleased when I brought mine home, but in fairness it took me three trips and a day of sorting the mess in the driveway. Then there were the boxes that would show up...

Still haven't ridden mine yet.

Rear shocks are definitely not stock, looks like something off of a '70s dirtbike.

Nice bike! Maybe the wife will forget about it! 

[Rick4003]

On the rear master cylinder size.
When you de-link the brakes the rear master has less piston area it needs to work on so the master cylinder to caliper piston ratio changes and makes your brake rock hard with no braking effect.

Mine was similar. De-linked before I got it and fitted with a 15mm master to a two piston caliper. Rock hard pedal and no real braking force. Changed the master cylinder out to a 11mm and now it works wonderfully. You likely have the same issue.

-Ulrik

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[chuck peterson]

That lower belly pan looks like it might have come from a red/black version and just the outside was painted grey...

My buddies suffered plastic meltdown in the tail feathers when the brake light stayed on, too much heat, and not easy to find replacements

Original mufflers!

He regularly outclassed us with gas mileage touching the mid-60's, which just doesn't compute when your looking at those beautiful carbs every time you walk away

Seems like a nice compliment to the cal 2...congrats!

[brider]

My wife was none too pleased when I brought mine home

I would think she'd be numb to it by now, by the looks of your stable of toys!

[brider]

When you de-link the brakes the rear master has less piston area it needs to work on so the master cylinder to caliper piston ratio changes and makes your brake rock hard with no braking effect.

This is exactly my condition, although I do not understand how reducing the area of application reduces the resultant force at the remaining area (assuming pressure remains the same).

I did some math, though, using your example of 15mm master vs 11mm master, and do see a 180% increase in pressure for the same pedal force going to the rear caliper. So I get that, but not the first part.

Is there a good reason why I would not want to re-link the brakes? I never had an issue with linked brakes, myself.

[BrotherJim]

Nice bike!  You could sort that out over winter.  My CalStone is my first street bike that is not quite a sport/standard machine, but I always wear a full face helmet.  Some models have better peripheral vision than others.  One that I like but do not have is the Bell Bullitt.  Cool vintage style... (insert hipster remark), super wide peripheral vision and great detail in construction.  Pricey.  Still not the perfect helmet!

[Guzzi Gal]

Wife is not happy 

Along the way he decided he didn't like the "white" color, so he rattle-can painted it the smoke gray color. I gently told him that some people consider the white the most attractive color for this model, myself included.

Whaddya think?

:1: First of all, congrats on your new ride!

If my hubby came home with another bike I'd be thrilled!  That said, it would be up to me to find a way to fit another into the garage.  I have a knack for fitting big things into small places.

For a rattle-can paint job, it looks alright in the photo.  Are you thinking, assuming you keep her, of going back to the white?

Ride on!

[Idontwantapickle]

This is exactly my condition, although I do not understand how reducing the area of application reduces the resultant force at the remaining area (assuming pressure remains the same).

I did some math, though, using your example of 15mm master vs 11mm master, and do see a 180% increase in pressure for the same pedal force going to the rear caliper. So I get that, but not the first part.

Is there a good reason why I would not want to re-link the brakes? I never had an issue with linked brakes, myself.

I think he meant that the master effectively has more, not less after delink. It was designed for two calipers and now is actuating only one. Ratio is too low.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Is there a good reason why I would not want to re-link the brakes? I never had an issue with linked brakes, myself.

I think they're fine. Two of mine have linked brakes, and I have absolutely no problem switching back and forth to the one that doesn't.

[Rick4003]

I think he meant that the master effectively has more, not less after delink. It was designed for two calipers and now is actuating only one. Ratio is too low.

What I meant is that the area of the caliper pistons is now less than it was before. As you also stated it now only have to move one calipers pistons and not two. The result would be that the same pedal movement moves the caliper pistons twice as far as with two calipers attached. Think of it as a seesaw were you move the pivot point closer to the middle. That is how the ratio of the piston areas should be seen. If you have a 15:1 ratio then you will apply 15 times the amount of force on the caliper as you put on the brake pedal.
Say before the bike was delinked it had a ratio of 20:1 after delinking the rear brake only have 10:1 ratio resulting in you having to press twice as hard on the pedal to get the same force as before.

-Ulrik

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[brider]

  I have a knack for fitting big things into small places.

That's what she said!!! She did! She said it!

  Are you thinking, assuming you keep her, of going back to the white?

In my fantasy world, yes. In reality, if I DO keep it, I might just ride it until it gives me a reason to take it off the road for a while, then I'll re-paint. Or I'd wait to find, or scrounge up, a set of original bodywork, red OR white. The gray isn't really THAT bad, especially if I put the proper tank and sidecover decals on it.

[Stevex]

So, the bike's brakes are de linked and you've not mentioned the fronts so the PO obviously fitted a PS15 master cylinder. If you're going to re link them, you'll need to replace it with a PS12 (Original fit, if my de linked LM2 is anything to go by).
To me, de linked is the way to go, and the way I went.

[not-fishing]

I use a Bell Bullitt for my commute and find it to have the best vision of any my other helmets.  mine's the TT to give people a bullseye to aim for

Of course you have to get the bubble shield separate.



As to the mirrors on my Griso and V11 Lemans I always turn my head and look -- just to be sure and I have found cars where I didn't see them before.

[Groover]

Congrats! glad someone here bought that one; It was tormenting me every time I'd come across that one during my "let's see what else I can buy that I don't need" searches 

Enjoy it as is, restore it later if you love it. Looks like the left switch is new-ish, so hang on to that as those are impossible to find, especially if you are thinking of possibly restoring it at some point.

I wonder if the inner chin piece is spray painted red as an accent to go with the rest of the red. Either way, looks great to me. Thanks for the ride report.

[brider]

So, the bike's brakes are de linked and you've not mentioned the fronts so the PO obviously fitted a PS15 master cylinder. If you're going to re link them, you'll need to replace it with a PS12 (Original fit, if my de linked LM2 is anything to go by).
To me, de linked is the way to go, and the way I went.

The front master LOOKS stock, it's integrated into the brake lever/switch perch. The stainless line runs into a T in front of the steering head with lines coming out to each front caliper.

Guess I better search the forums for discussions on how to de-link correctly? I may go back and ask the PO, as I said he was NOT a Guzzi guy but did know motorcycles, he may have "heard" that it was "better" to de-link, and just did it, whether the correct method or not.

[Stevex]

The front master LOOKS stock, it's integrated into the brake lever/switch perch. The stainless line runs into a T in front of the steering head with lines coming out to each front caliper.

Guess I better search the forums for discussions on how to de-link correctly? I may go back and ask the PO, as I said he was NOT a Guzzi guy but did know motorcycles, he may have "heard" that it was "better" to de-link, and just did it, whether the correct method or not.

If you're still running the original PS12 front brake mc for both front discs you'd definitely notice braking issues.
Would be a good idea to get info from the PO as to exactly what you have fitted.
The alternative is to remove the master cylinder and measure the piston diameter.

[wrbix]

Again, Guzziology has a nice discussion and very useful table IIRC re delinking and appropriate master to slave ratios.
You do have Guzziology, don’t you?

[brider]

Again, Guzziology has a nice discussion and very useful table IIRC re delinking and appropriate master to slave ratios.
You do have Guzziology, don’t you?

I have a VERY early version, bought it in ~'97 or earlier, I think. I'll blow the dust off it and see what it says. Bender's site should have something, too, shouldn't it?

[Diploman]

 :1: on re-linking the brakes!  Guzzi's "Integral Braking System" is an excellent setup that actually does improve braking stability and safety.  Reduces front-end dive, enables moderate braking while cornering, stops the bike effectively with only the foot pedal.  Then you have the right front rotor if you need more for really hard stopping.  Linked brakes (like a car) are an innovation for which Guzzi deserves more credit - it's the best brake system short of ABS.  Some feel the need to de-link simply because the linked system is different from traditional Moto braking systems.  Once you become accustomed to the Integral system, it's great.

You can do the relink very easily by using Goodridge Sniper II microbore lines and fittings (Amazon, Revival Cycles , etc.). The small diameter of these lines and great flexibility makes them easier to work with and route than the larger bore Magnum lines available from MG.  I have used both and prefer the Goodridge.  If you no longer have the OE hard brake pipe, you can readily substitute DIY brake lines and route them however you please.  No special fitting needed at the footbrake MC - a double banjo will split the pressure 50/50 and I presume the Lemans has a proportioning valve.  The bike's OE footbrake MC will be the right size.  You may need to find a new MC for the handlebar: 12 or 13 mm axial or 15 mm radial.

If you take the time and effort to re-link your bikes brakes the way Guzzi designers conceived them, you will be rewarded. 

[brider]

Goodridge Sniper II microbore lines and fittings (Amazon, Revival Cycles , etc.). The small diameter of these lines and great flexibility makes them easier to work with and route than the larger bore Magnum lines available from MG.  I have used both and prefer the Goodridge.

Thanks for that info, I'll use it if I decide to re-link.

If the bike was already linked I'd never consider de-linking, but I have no fear of de-linked brakes, and finding a compatible rear MC seems like my cheapest path forward right now.

Even with linked brakes, I ALWAYS use the front brake lever; old habit from my dirt-biking days.