CARC fix up.

[Vasco DG]

Well those who looked at the 'Broken' thread will remember the carnage I found when I pulled the seal holder.



Surprisingly, and luckily, the teeth of both crownwheel and pinion looked OK so I decided I'd just  give it a damn good clean out and re preload the pinion and then Loctite the buggery out of it. While not ideal it will allow me to have a 'Get you home' shitter sitting on the shelf for customers who might be caught short on a trip.

After removing the collar the seal runs on you can clearly see the bearing and the o-ring fitted to stop the oil seeping up the pinion shaft.



Because I recognised the noise and got to it early although the lock washer had disintegrated the nut itself hadn't completely come off. This saved the threads from getting beaten to death and rendering the pinion unusable. So it was simply a case of installing a new lockwasher and nut after giving the whole thing a realy, really good wash!



The seal holder can now be re-installed with a new seal and tightened town to twelvety million mile tonnes before being locked with the G clip.



After this I decided to pull the crownwheel and check the bearings, these are pics from an earlier disassembly but the process was the same. Pull off small outer bearing, knock down tab on big lockwasher, undo peg nut, push out crownwheel.



Gave 'em all a good wash before puting it back together again, with Loctite  ::). Check backlash in gears, all good! ;-T

So now you stick the front boot on.



And it is supposed to have a plastic protector to stop the clamp digging in but I'd lost that and since it's only a 'Get you homey' box I'm not dying in a ditch over it.

Use a boot clamp tool and car CV boot clamp to secure the boot.





When tight, bend up the clamp to secure it and use the cut-off function to snip off the excess clamp.



Before bending the end of the clamp back over and locking it with the locking tabs.



You can then press the reassembled bridge back into the LH case, add sealant and press the RH case back on to it. Repeat the clamping proceedure on the top boot. Screw the shity retainer plate for the front boot on and pop a new seal in the crownwheel side. Mark it as a 'Get me home' shitter so you don't sell it to some poor mug by mistake. Job done.

Pete

[Bill Hagan]

Thanks for that, Pete.

Naturally, you could give me the required tools, a step-by-step video, and a one-time walk-thru, and I'd still fornicate that up ... and take a year to do it.  :'(

Still, always great to see a master at work.

Bill

[Vasco DG]

The important thing to remember Bill is that if you suddenly get extra noise/or vibration? DON'T ignore it and hope it goes away. It won't! Getting to it early leaves me fairly confident that this unit, although obviously compromised by its loss of preload, will soldier on perfectly acceptably for a long, long time.

Having suffered a failure like this I obviously can't sell it but it is I'm quite sure going to be perfectly safe to use to get people home if they suffer some malfunction on the road with theirs. It will probably be a bit noisier than it should be, mainly from the bearings which had a fair bit of chewed up washer washed through them, but they are still smooth and the races and rollers looked OK when cleaned, but the gear backlash is still fine and it has no tight spots.

If I'd just kept riding until it died it could of been catastrophic but the noise and vibration were so obvious I can't see how anybody could miss it or not realise there was some seriously bad shit going down!

Pete

[Phang]

These are CARC porns!  ;-T

The pinion peg nut looks more accessible than I have thought

[Waterbottle]

Great info and pics Pete  ;-T
As much as I enjoy pulling something new apart, I've just had ,what I think is one of my greatest ideas  :o
I know this fellow who has the necessary tools and experience, and rather than pay to have parts and tools sent up here to me, I'll send him my Carc to have it checked out,  ;-T  You've spoilt all the fun anyway with the photos, I know what's in there now, all the magic is gone  :D
I'll call you at work tomorrow if that's ok Pete

[Vasco DG]

Bugger, wrote this and then the system crashed.

Basically though Don? Don't bother. I have in ten years and many, many CARC bikes seen this issue twice. I have read of three other incidents on the innerneck.

In my many years of working with these bikes I'd rate that as not a bad attrition rate. In my experience the 1100 Sport/Centy/Daytona boxes were the worst as they weren't vented and would blow seals. The V11 boxes were prone to water intrusion and their pinion nose bearings gall up badly. The earlier Tonti style boxes are good but prone to spline wear on the hubs and loosening of the crownwheel bolts and loss of pinion preload due to wear leading to tooth surface deterioration and chipping.

None of these systems are perfect and the fact that the pinion bearings aren't solid spaced in the CARC shits me but I'd happily pay $20 or whatever more per bike to have it done properly. Many people aren't! Simple.

Really though it has proven to be a system every bit as reliable in real terms as any other, (Shrug?)

When it does go west it is very, very noticeable. I really can't understand how anybody could ride a CARC to death. It requires a 'Suspension of disbelief' and wilfull unwillingness to accept the input of ones own senses that I simply cannot comprehend. It's obvious there is some serious 'Bad Shit' going down, especially if you don't wear ear plugs!

Modern Guzzi with CARC.

New owner's manual by Roper. Chapter One.

Ride hard.

Ride often.

Use your brain!

Stop worrying!

Pete

[steffen]

Modern Guzzi with CARC.

New owner's manual by Roper. Chapter One.

Ride hard.

Ride often.

Use your brain!

Stop worrying!

Pete

Aye aye, captain. ;D ;D

[lucian]

Great work as usual, probably a repair beyond us back yarders, but excellent insight to have if you own a carc bike. Thanks Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks for that, Pete.. ;-T

[BigBlock]

Thanks Pete for the very informative post.  Much appreciated. ;-T

[Breva01748]

I can't find the "Broken" thread referred to in the first post.  Can anyone help me?  Especially a description of the noise.

I have a 2007 Norge with almost 50k miles on it.  When I decelerate in gear (any gear), I hear what I would call a gear whine from what sounds like the area of the rear wheel.  This is totally new.  I recently changed the oil in both the transmission and the CARC bevel box if it has anything to do with it (RedLine Heavy).  And yes, the Reline was still in both.

To describe what I'm hearing:  Going down the road under power, I hear nothing unusual.  If I back off on the throttle, I will hear a whine when I'm not maintaining speed.  If I give it a little more throttle, the sound goes away.  The sound changes pitch with speed.  The pitch does not change with what gear I'm in.  It seems to get louder once the bike has been ridden a few miles.  I ride with a guy who also has a 2007 Norge (much lower mileage) and feeling the CARC and transmission by hand, mine is no hotter than his (moderately warm).

I think of a bearing noise as typically being "crunchy".  This is a whine or howl.  It could be from anything from the transmission rearward (hard to tell at speed; I can hardly lean over far enough to tell).

I'm going to drain both the transmission and bevel box looking for metal bits.  Other than that, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.

-Bob

[pete roper]

Bob, it certainly sounds as if it's dumping it's preload. Time to stop riding and check it out.

Pete

[12SCraig]

Thanks again Pete.

I will continue to take your advice.

Allthebest,
Craig.

[Huzo]

None of these systems are perfect and the fact that the pinion bearings aren't solid spaced in the CARC shits me but I'd happily pay $20 or whatever more per bike to have it done properly. Many people aren't!

My Norge does not have any issues yet in the bevel box, but just so I can claim to understand.
Is a "solid spaced" set of tapereds so called, when they are torqued up against a machined packer of defined length, and the backlash can only be adjusted by addition or removal of shims ?
As opposed to winding the nut up to achieve the requisite lash and locking it up at that ?
Or the third possible variation...?
None of the above..

[pete roper]

Basically yes.

[Huzo]

Tar