Dash errors and non-starting

[ITSec]

I'm thinking there's an issue with the immobilizer antenna and related things around that part of the wiring harness (i.e., up near the key or dash) on my well-used 2v Norge.

In the memory part (not active) of the dash error readings, I see the following errors as held in memory:

03 - Immobiliser fault: Antenna broken (open or short-circuit)
04 - Immobiliser fault: internal controller fault
05 - Fuel sensor fault
06 - Air temperature sensor fault
07 - Oil sensor fault

These errors can be cleared, but return on the next attempt to start.

When the key is turned on, I get the correct light show and needle sweep. I can hear the fuel pump coming up to pressure. The bike cranks over well, but no firing occurs.

I thought the immobilizer would prevent cranking, but perhaps it is a fuel cut-off. Anybody have the answer on that? Is it possible I have an issue there, or in the antenna connection, that would prevent starting but allow cranking and the other actions I've described?

I haven't thrown GuzziDiag on it yet, since there are no ECU errors displayed.

[rodekyll]

In guzzidiag there is a "status" bar to the right of the read outs.  It gives the state of most of the things you need to start -- sidestand, clutch switch, kill, neutral, etc.  I think the immobilizer is listed.

[yogidozer]

remember the good old days. points, condensers, and computers? DANGER WILL ROBINSON.....IT DOES NOT COMPUTE! 

[blackcat]

Something similar happened to me on my 07 Norge after a long ride. Light show, wouldn't start so I disconnected the battery, waited a minute or two then reconnected battery and the bike started.

[yogidozer]

Something similar happened to me on my 07 Norge after a long ride. Light show, wouldn't start so I disconnected the battery, waited a minute or two then reconnected battery and the bike started.

that works on a car, for sure. reboots the computer. quick and easy, worth a try

[alanp]

I also had a similar issue with my 2v Norge.  I replaced the battery without any change.  The condition (crank, but no start and no firing) was intermittent and 2 dealers were never able to solve the issue.  There were a variety of faults noted during their attempts, and I recall we replaced the clutch and side stand switches, as well as a few other things but the condition persisted.  Sorry, that's not helpful I know, but I offer it up as a data point. 

The bike usually started on the second or third attempt of turning the key off, waiting a bit and turning it back on.  Never found a pattern and it was never fixed.   

[yogidozer]

I don't have a  Norge, but is there a relay that could be causing this?
My MG "Spot" had this problem, changed the relay, no more problems

[ITSec]

Something similar happened to me on my 07 Norge after a long ride. Light show, wouldn't start so I disconnected the battery, waited a minute or two then reconnected battery and the bike started.

That's been done - since the bike was sitting with an old battery, I put a new one in before doing this. Good thought though...

[ITSec]

I also had a similar issue with my 2v Norge.  I replaced the battery without any change.  The condition (crank, but no start and no firing) was intermittent and 2 dealers were never able to solve the issue.  There were a variety of faults noted during their attempts, and I recall we replaced the clutch and side stand switches, as well as a few other things but the condition persisted.  Sorry, that's not helpful I know, but I offer it up as a data point. 

The bike usually started on the second or third attempt of turning the key off, waiting a bit and turning it back on.  Never found a pattern and it was never fixed.

This is why I am thinking it may be something around the antenna, the key wiring or the immobilizer. I have seen some occasional odd behavior in the past which can be changed by turning the steering head back and forth, which makes me think I have an increasingly bad point in the harness near the antenna and immobilizer circuit wiring.

[old head]

Similar thing happened to me, I tried a different key and it worked.  Could be the key

Old Head

[Kiwi_Roy]

You have 4 different re-occurring faults. I’m thinking could it be something in common, a bad ECU or dash ground perhaps.
I will have a look at the schematic when I get to my computer.

Have you checked for spark / wet plugs?


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[Moto]

Since they are all dash errors I suspect it's a bad dash printed circuit board (PCB). But since there's nothing much good to say after that, I'm hoping one of these other ideas turns out to be it.

If you are willing to pull out the PCB, you can look for signs of water damage and corrosion, typically at the lower corner of the board. Finding that, there is some hope of removing corrosion and restoring functionality, at least in principle. An electronics shop that repairs cell phones might be able to help. These boards look pretty simple from the point of view of such shops.

[yogidozer]

computers on bikes....don't ya just love em?

[Kiwi_Roy]

This is why I am thinking it may be something around the antenna, the key wiring or the immobilizer. I have seen some occasional odd behavior in the past which can be changed by turning the steering head back and forth, which makes me think I have an increasingly bad point in the harness near the antenna and immobilizer circuit wiring.

Is your bike high mileage?
It could well be a broken wire in the loom where it flexes at the headstock, copper work hardens and gets brittle.
Take a look at the loom, does it bend in one spot when you go from lock to lock?
If you can open up the loom where it flexes and pull hard on each wire the ones with broken wires will stretch and snap.
Also pull apart the connectors and look for signs of corrosion.

[ITSec]

Is your bike high mileage?
It could well be a broken wire in the loom where it flexes at the headstock, copper work hardens and gets brittle.
Take a look at the loom, does it bend in one spot when you go from lock to lock?
If you can open up the loom where it flexes and pull hard on each wire the ones with broken wires will stretch and snap.
Also pull apart the connectors and look for signs of corrosion.

Does 137,000 miles count as high mileage? 

I rather suspect you are on track, and this is what I was thinking.

[Kiwi_Roy]

130,000 miles wow, has the bike had many issues in that time.
You may be able to purchase just the loom that wraps around the headstock that would be the easy way.


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[Moto]

ITSec,

Be sure to post when you find the answer. I don't remember any problems on CARC bikes being traced to the wiring loom, but that may in part be a function of their relatively low milages -- yours not included.

Moto