Pretty sure my rear trans seal failed...

[Thirtyaughtsix]

I would put up the pictures I took but I just don't have the patience for it right now, but basically my clutch has been starting to creep out again for some time, I finally got around to taking off the whole rear end to get to it only to find the whole throwout slathered in 90w, whole length of the push rod and everything, which I can only assume is also in contact with the clutch hub and plates by extension, etc. My outer body had been recessed probably at least 2mm, but the throwout bearing itself was still intact, its 2 washers lightly scuffed and the pushrod not even slightly mushroomed or galvanized at the ends, it actually looks a touch better than the brand new one I was going to replace it with from mgcycle. It's also worth noting my u-joint booth released probably 2 shot glasses worth of 90w or so, which I feel isn't correct. I have yet to take fluid measurements from the tranny and final drive.

What gets me the most is that I spent $1200 at the closest Guzzi dealer 1.5 hours away for them to take care of all of this to take the me making errors variable out the equation, as I have had my rear tranny seal and by extension clutch fail on me before, this time last year, only for all of this to happen again only 1300ish miles, making it increasingly difficult to like this bike.

Can anyone shed some light for me? Insights? What should I do?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

A failing transmission output shaft seal will not foul the clutch with oil. Two things will: 1) leaky seal and/or o-rings on the clutch hub/input shaft, 2) leaky clutch pushrod seals.

[acogoff]

     The transmission is refilled by measurement of .750 Liter or .8 Qt #90. Do not use the side hole ever as a guide or chances are it will get over filled and it will try and escape somewhere. I would just drain and refill with the proper amount and see what takes place.

[guzzisteve]

Don't farm out what you can do yourself, it takes the "them" factor out of the picture.
Plenty of threads here on crabbing the frame.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Alright but what do I need to do to ensure this doesn't happen again for a few hundred years? I really don't want to be doing this every 1000 miles...

[pete roper]

The throwout bearing is supposed to be wet. It's lubricated by the gearbox oil. The oil is supposed to be kept in at the back by an o-ring on the outer thrust body and prevented from running up the pushrod by the cone seals or aftermarket O-ring pack on the rod.

With the oil in the UJ housing? Possibly the output shaft seal or more likely the O-Ring underneath the hardened washer inboard of the speedo worm. It helps if you fit the *extra* washer/shim that fits on the splines to assist the crush used in later boxes. Otherwise it may be migrating up from the bevelbox if your shocks are too short, collapsed or just have no damping to speak of.

Pete

[Thirtyaughtsix]

The throwout bearing is supposed to be wet. It's lubricated by the gearbox oil. The oil is supposed to be kept in at the back by an o-ring on the outer thrust body and prevented from running up the pushrod by the cone seals or aftermarket O-ring pack on the rod.

With the oil in the UJ housing? Possibly the output shaft seal or more likely the O-Ring underneath the hardened washer inboard of the speedo worm. It helps if you fit the *extra* washer/shim that fits on the splines to assist the crush used in later boxes. Otherwise it may be migrating up from the bevelbox if your shocks are too short, collapsed or just have no damping to speak of.

Pete

Hmm, may or may not need a pic for that one, or an alternate explanation, it's been awhile since I've been back here.

What about my outer body being recessed though, what would the deal there be?

[guzzisteve]

IF your shop really did the seals and went through it, it wouldn't be having an issue. I use the 2 cup on the rod not orings. If the trow out don't sit right replace it. Find out where the oil is coming from & change the seals OR see how good the shop stands behind their work.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hmm, may or may not need a pic for that one, or an alternate explanation, it's been awhile since I've been back here.

What about my outer body being recessed though, what would the deal there be?

"Probably" something going on with the throw out bearing. I suppose it could be a totally boogerd pushrod.. but Pete's explanation would be hard to fault.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

"Probably" something going on with the throw out bearing. I suppose it could be a totally boogerd pushrod.. but Pete's explanation would be hard to fault.

Could be a couple of things, the reason the outer body is recessed:
1) pushrod shorter than original
2) thicker SD-TEC clutch plates
3) hole in the "thrust piece" (that fits into the center of the pressure plate) is worn deeper than original or it's an aftermarket part, most of which are made wrong.

[Chuck in Indiana]

3) hole in the "thrust piece" (that fits into the center of the pressure plate) is worn deeper than original or it's an aftermarket part, most of which are made wrong.

I didn't realize that. Thanks for the heads up, Charlie..

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I didn't realize that. Thanks for the heads up, Charlie..

On the aftermarket piece I bought, not only was the hole drilled deeper (than even a worn original), the hole wasn't "flat bottomed" like the original, but tapered - just like if it was done with a drill bit. My brain isn't coming up with the proper terminology right now, but I think you get the drift. V shaped vs. I_I where the pushrod fits in the center.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

The pushrod appears fine, perfect in fact. I have a new pushrod and inner body to compare to the ones I just pulled out and the "fault" seems to be the inner body; both the old and new pushrods just sit farther inside the old inner body than the new inner body I just got in the mail. Can confirm both pushrods are the same length. I can't comment on what the clutch hub is like as I have yet to see it with my own eyes, I do know the new plates are the 4mm spline variety, does that equate to them being SD-TEC?

I forgot to mention my clutch cable had failed as well and was unraveling, my gut leans towards doubtful but is there a chance that's the cause of why the inner body "failed"? Threw whole throwout off?

Also measured my oil in my tranny and final. Converted to ounces, my tranny had just under 24 when the book calls for 25.3, and the final had a smidge over 14 when the book calls for 12.1. Rear shocks measure 330mm from the center of eyes. I did in fact top both of those off using the fill holes, I didn't measure and pour beforehand. I'll note that some of that is slathered and gunkified all over the underside of the bike, it is definitely not 100% oil tight and looks like it hasn't been washed in 30,000 miles and not 1700 but that'll be a different thread. In any event, both now sit at the measurement the book recommends.

I found the clutch adjustment page on Benders site, part of me wants to just throw the new stuff in and take a weekend really dialing in the throwout adjustment and see what happens. What should I do?

I also feel like a clutch cable should last more than 1000 miles, any insight on why that would have failed?

[acogoff]

     I'm betting your clutch cable failed at the handlebar end. A shot of WD40 once a month will keep the cable end free to rotate in the lever and not fatigue the cable. No one has mentioned that you should probably make sure your transmission vent is not obstructed. An oil over fill and plugged vent will lead to oil departing the transmission at the easiest point for to get out. Good luck with your trouble shooting.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

     I'm betting your clutch cable failed at the handlebar end. A shot of WD40 once a month will keep the cable end free to rotate in the lever and not fatigue the cable. No one has mentioned that you should probably make sure your transmission vent is not obstructed. An oil over fill and plugged vent will lead to oil departing the transmission at the easiest point for to get out. Good luck with your trouble shooting.

That's right, cable failed at the handlebar end. IIRC the transmission vent tube is the one that most people run up towards the battery bay right? It's not anything running into the breather box?

[acogoff]

That's right, cable failed at the handlebar end. IIRC the transmission vent tube is the one that most people run up towards the battery bay right? It's not anything running into the breather box?

     The breather hose runs up behind the left side cover if it is still original and just vents into the atmosphere at that point. May be worth a try to remove your transmission fill cap so air has a place to go and blow some air backward through the vent to make sure it is not obstructed.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

     The breather hose runs up behind the left side cover if it is still original and just vents into the atmosphere at that point. May be worth a try to remove your transmission fill cap so air has a place to go and blow some air backward through the vent to make sure it is not obstructed.

Ok cool, I'll get to that next.

I've decided I'm going to throw everything back together and get the throwout perfect and hope for the best, It's not like I can't get it all back off in 40 minutes with how much I've done it now 

[Tom]

You can also fit a hotel shampoo bottle to the end of the hose.  Put a small hole to vent the air out while letting the oil mist to condense and run back into the trans.  Make sure the hose routing is vertical.  The whole thing will prevent oil mung to the parts of the bike near the vent line.