Big oil filter with old pump?

[jwinwi]

Morning All,
Ex-Convert has the later 1 piece oem deep sump installed so can I use the larger oil filter, as long as I change the adapter in the bottom of the sump?
Or does the larger filter need the higher output pump that came out in 1993 or so with the larger filter?

[Old Jock]

I'll let more expert heads than mine chime in with the whys and wherefores but I was not aware of a change to the pump ratings unless we are talking Daytona onwards.

I am running a Vee sump with outsider and did exactly what you are asking and have been running like that for 2k miles plus no problems, the engine is an LM 1000 aka LMV

[guzzisteve]

A larger filter should make no difference on the older block oil pumps, plenty of pressure to go around if you have a good motor to start with. The filter isn't that much bigger than the short one.

[jwinwi]

I'll let more expert heads than mine chime in with the whys and wherefores but I was not aware of a change to the pump ratings unless we are talking Daytona onwards.

I am running a Vee sump with outsider and did exactly what you are asking and have been running like that for 2k miles plus no problems, the engine is an LM 1000 aka LMV

Jock, going from  memory here so who knows... But I thought the medium-valved 'World Motors' SP3 etc, got a higher output pump to go with the larger filter. It sure helps to know that someone has done this with no problems.  Thanks to Steve also!

[rodekyll]

There are two interchangeable pumps for that era of big blocks.  A 13mm (old style) and a 15mm (18% more vane). 

Mg cycle has both (and unlike most Guzzi parts departments they know the difference).

[Kiwi_Roy]

I know nothing about pumps but i love that bike, very tasty


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[Rick4003]

I would say that the volume of the filter makes no difference as soon as the oil filter has been filled with oil. It may take a few more milliseconds to fill the big filter but it should not make a difference to the pressure or flow output from the pump.

And yes, the Magni is extremely tasty [emoji16]

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[rodekyll]

I wouldn't go through the trouble of changing to the big filter unless the small one is becoming hard to find.

I like to prefill the filter and screw it onto the sump rather than let the oil pump do it.  The big filter takes about 12oz.  I haven't changed a small one in a while but I think it's 8oz.  That's a lot of volume to push before getting any pressure.

[jwinwi]

I wouldn't go through the trouble of changing to the big filter unless the small one is becoming hard to find.

I like to prefill the filter and screw it onto the sump rather than let the oil pump do it.  The big filter takes about 12oz.  I haven't changed a small one in a while but I think it's 8oz.  That's a lot of volume to push before getting any pressure.

RK, the goal is to use one filter for the XCon and Spot 1100...

[Moto]

Gordon at MGCycle sold me a large filter for my deepened-sump T3 long ago, either implicitly or explicitly recommending it, with no consideration of changing the pump. Though I take RK's point about the greater volume to fill, my T3 has always run just fine. I also think that the pressure developed in the system has little to do with the size of the filter. Finally, I think that having more filter material is better if there is any question of the oil going too long between changes and beginning to clog the filter up. So I would go ahead and use the larger filter, if only for the convenience of stocking one kind.

But that's only my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Moto

P.S. Jock: If possible, put a warning label on your posts before showing your Magni again. Some of us are getting to be too frail for such excitement.

[pete roper]

Size of the filter has precisely zero relevance to the volume of the pump's delivery. Once the filter is full all a larger filter does is pass the same quantity of oil through a larger surface area of filtering medium.

The advantage of a larger filter is that it needs to be changed less often, that's all.

Pete

[rodekyll]

Standardizing filters in a fleet is a good thing.

[jwinwi]

Thank you for all the responses. Always good info from those who know what they're talking about and have BTDT. Priceless!
That reminds me I need to donate some $ to Luap...

[Dukedesmo]

I've considered using a larger filter on my LM2 which has a deep sump with outside (and underneath so always full) filter.

The only reason I'm considering it is that I've got a job lot of K&N Ducati filters that cost less than the UFI as specified for the Guzzi and I assume the UFI is specified because when fitting inside the sump as per original, it would interfere with the crankshaft or something?

I'm fairly certain the fitting thread and sealing ring are the same size so assuming bypass pressures etc. are compatible I would think it should be fine, plus they're easier to fit/remove with a 17mm hex fitting on them...

[Old Jock]

Heh Dukedesmo

Not sure if the Ducati filters will fit, if it's like the type I've used Ducati filter is a KN-153 (at least the one that's in my 1098 is) dimensions are 85mm high 78mm diameter

Guzzi K&N part is HP-1002 or PS-1002, dimensions are 95mm high 76mm diameter

So the Duc filters might be a little too wide to seal, apart from that if the thread is fine I really cannot think why not

Is that a G&G deep sump you have? Lucky guy I just could not find one and ended up with the MotoSpezial offering, it's fine but the G&G is pure art work

John

[Dukedesmo]

Yes a G&G sump and yes a KN-153 filter. The sump does make it more 'normal' servicing wise, I was never keen on having to remove the sump to swap a filter and my OCD isn't comfortable with only changing the filter every 2 or 4 oil changes.


Being deeper the oil sits lower down, further from the crankshaft and I can get the full specified amount below the windage plate plus it must help with cooling by virtue of more fins & air exposure?   


I'll need to investigate if the filter fits but as long as it goes in the hole it should seal OK as the mounting base is flat IIRC. I've been using the recommended UFI filter without considering that it's probably only necessary if fitting internally in the original sump.