Hydro fix questions

[Burkslaw]

I have found a dealer who can complete the "hydro repair" on my 2004 EV1100 California.
In 50 years of riding, I have never entrusted one of my motorcycles to anyone to undertake a repair; I do my own.
Questions: What does the "hydro repair" entail? I know the heads will be popped off to replace valve springs and retainers, and the motor disassembled as required to remove and replace the camshaft, but:
Can the repair be completed with motor in situ?
What are the special tools required?
Do the cyl barrels have to be removed for any reason? At 15K miles the rings have seated perfectly and I would rather not disturb them.
Should I be nervous allowing a stranger access to the most intimate areas of my Italian beauty's erogenous zones?
Or jealous?
Are there any other preventative measures I should request when she is on the operating table (other than oil/filter change, of course?)

I know I should not be so emotionally invested in this operation, but...........you all understand.

[John Croucher]

I could probably do it with the engine in the frame.  Maybe remove the front wheel and fender for additional clearance. 

You want to clean the oil pump and replace the cam chain tensioner while you are in there.  The heads could remain installed.  The cam buckets/followers drop out when the cam is removed.  Putting them back in may be tricky.  Using 4 magnets on a stick to hold them up while reinstalling the cam would help. 

Some one here knows the procedures better.  I have been in 3 hydro motors.  They all had lifter and valve stem damage after the recall was done. One engine, had a blown head gasket on the front of the right cylinder and a blown base gasket on the left cylinder.  Who ever did the work, did not do a good job of tightening the head bolts.  19,000 miles before the bike was wrecked and engine removed. The replacement cam looks brand new.  The engine in my 2003 bike, has what appears to be flaking on the edges of the cam lobes.  I have not removed it, but have looked inside the engine and took pictures.  I don't know if this is a sign of a recall cam failing or not.   The valve stems appear to lack good oiling under operation.  Causing to wear and to need periodical adjustment.   Good motor though.  I abuse mine.  In the process of duel plugging the heads and putting higher compression pistons in.  If I am lucky, I will have fun trying to blow the heads off.  I have a spare engine being assemble on the bench now. 

[guzzisteve]

First off, it's done w/motor in frame and even gas tank in place. What dealer? Better make sure they have the factory tool kit for the procedure. PN # GU03049871
Tools consist of a fitting that goes in spark plug hole to put air in cylinder at BTC
Tappet adjusting and assembly plate
Valve spring assembling & disassembling plate
A gauged tappet(solid slug, non hydraulic)
4 aluminum hollow locking cam follower tools, sort of like pushrods, 1 has a movable rod to push tappet down and grab old ones.
handle w/slotted end to grab followers and replace after cam is removed.
The operation is briefly described as follows
Drop pan, disassemble all even oil pressure valve, clean w/gas, same thing up in block, timing chest, oil pump, everything.
Take off alternator, Pull cover
Put L/H at TDC, removing rocker arrangement using plate tool for pins under pressure, pull pushrods, insert rods to hold followers in place w/rubber bands So they don't fall out w/pulling cam, repeat on R/H side
Pull your chain group, tone wheel, oil pump, cam cover, and slide out cam
Grab followers w/handle tool through cam hole in front of block
Wash everything out, the whole block, oil pump, then measure pump(in case of replacement)
Replace followers w/tool, replace cam, oil pump, chain group w/tone wheel, etc Time the engine on assembly
Put on pan after it's cleaned & reassembled
Put L/H cyl at BDC , put in air adapter in plug hole & add air (100psi or more)
Mount plate for valve springs w/rocker pins, take off keepers, caps, springs, measure deck to valve end, replace shims as needed for spring height, assemble. Do all 4, Then repeat on R/H cyl
Drop in the slug, all 4 followers, adjust clearance, remove slug & replace w/pumped up hydro tappet
Do you get the idea
Not something for a newby wrench at a new dealer. Make sure they've done a few at least

[Wayne Orwig]

As Steve detailed.

The engine and heads stay in place with the correct tools.

[dxhall]

Which parts are the ones that fail?  I have never owned a hydro bike and have no experience with them. 

[pete roper]

The cam lobes and tappets. The fix requires a host of other parts as well. Once done though they are wonderful.

Pete

[dxhall]

This is what is holding me back from putting a deposit on a V85.  Can I trust Guzzi to get it right the first time?   History suggests no.

[guzzisteve]

This is what is holding me back from putting a deposit on a V85.  Can I trust Guzzi to get it right the first time?   History suggests no.

I wouldn't think twice about a Hydro, cause I can fix it.  A new Smallblock, I'll pass.

[Bob Wegman]

Are Hydro repair kits still available?

[bmc5733946]

I am not trying to frighten anyone. The first two cam and lifter recalls that I did involved some pretty extensive damage including metal debris embedded in the wear surface coating (some kind of Teflon I presume) of both pistons, severe damage to oil pump rotors and housing, scarring of crank surfaces, debris embedded in rod bearings etc.. Complete inspection is essential to a good repair. Moto Guzzi stepped up and replaced both of those engines in warranty. The others that I did were caught earlier in the wear process and did not have as much damage.

Brian

[Loop Tonti EV]

This is what is holding me back from putting a deposit on a V85.  Can I trust Guzzi to get it right the first time?   History suggests no.

2001 EV, 110,000 miles. Pre-hydro motor. Guzzi did get it right the first time.

[leafman60]

If you are in Deland FL, I suggest that you carry that thing up to Atlanta and leave it with Guzzisteve and let him do the job (if he would).

Steve is a first-class act, has the experience and he knows his stuff.

.

[guzzisteve]

Maybe, maybe not!! You have to check w/a dealer that will actually check and not just lie to you saying no or yes.

Part #GU03049872 superseded to PN #887349  last I heard they made another batch, that was 3yrs ago and may not make any more. Been almost 15yrs since they quit making Hydro's, not going to last forever, I think warranty is expired on it. It's 8-10hrs work.

edit:  https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=45662&sku=887349&description=Timing+System+Update+Kit+%2D+887349+%28ex+GU03049872%29
And tool kit:
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=53702&sku=GU03049871&description=Tool+kit+%2D+GU03049871

That is $3113.49    plus     labor= PART THE BIKE OUT

[leafman60]

Maybe, maybe not!! You have to check w/a dealer that will actually check and not just lie to you saying no or yes.

Part #GU03049872 superseded to PN #887349  last I heard they made another batch, that was 3yrs ago and may not make any more. Been almost 15yrs since they quit making Hydro's, not going to last forever, I think warranty is expired on it. It's 8-10hrs work.

edit:  https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=45662&sku=887349&description=Timing+System+Update+Kit+%2D+887349+%28ex+GU03049872%29
And tool kit:
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=53702&sku=GU03049871&description=Tool+kit+%2D+GU03049871

Holy cow, Steve, LOL.

The parts are 2600+ and it takes 10 hours labor ??

That adds up almost to more than the bike is worth!

.

[guzzisteve]

Yep,  I didn't make it, I just fix em. 

If the OP bought the parts & tools, did the work himself, it would still double the price of the bike if he paid $3K for it. Still OK if you ride it forever and don't sell it. Actually better, if you look at the new bike prices.

[Burkslaw]

Thank you for all the input. I am hoping the internals have not suffered significant damage; it is a low mileage bike, there was no evidence of metal particles in the sump or filter or strainer when I did an oil change, I am running the prescribed low viscosity oil and there is no indication of low oil pressure at idle with the engine being extremely warm (in a parade stop and go environment recently).

I will have Euro Cycles in Tampa do the work.

I will also probably always double-check to make sure my cell phone is working before I depart the garage on a ride.

[guzzisteve]

That dealer should be ok w/work. Might even get a break on the parts or labor(warranty maybe). I don't have access to Guzzi's service site anymore. Haven't talked to the Tech Rep lately either. Good luck, let us know how it turns out, cause there is still lots more Hydro's not fixed out there.

[dguzzi]

Glad I bought a kit a while back when they were under 200$  (without the tools of course) !

[Dilliw]

Glad I bought a kit a while back when they were under 200$  (without the tools of course) !

There's still a kit on EBay for $350 I think

[guzzisteve]

No Sh&t !!! I couldn't believe that price. It is marked up of course to dealer list, dealer cost may be 1/2.
Last time I looked and got a kit full list was $1200. Each time they have a batch made up it cost more, most likely not a large quantity in a batch. 

[dguzzi]

I better go make sure mine is protected from any corrosion or damage. Might be like gold later on!