tubeless wire wheels

[Groover]

I thought there might be valve stems with a radius  that would fit the arc in the bottom of the wheel more closely. So far, I haven't found any. I suppose that having a rubber gasket on each side of the rim would help.
Bead blasting worked better than I expected to clean them up, FWIW. I'm confident that whatever I use to stick on the wheel will have a good shot at that. 

That would be great if a manufacturer would make a slightly radius-ed one. I ended up using the Chrome Parts Unlimited Valve Stems VS-1218R (https://www.parts-unlimited.com/products/?productId=362897&partNumber=VS1218R ) for my G5's cast wheels, but I only used the rubber on the inside smeared with Napa bead sealer ( https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7101204 ), then double-nut-ed the outer part. So far so good, but I'm always a little nervous about the seal. The reason I didn't use the outer rubber was because I thought the outer rubber would push in when I'd put air in the tire, possibly breaking the seal on the inner one. Anyway, that was my reasoning. I did have to cut down the chrome cap a little to accommodate the double-nut.

[Lesman]

I did my Quota wheel's about 5 years ago still works great. I over complicated my process. I used a plumber's glue or epoxy(I Can't remember the name but it was in a squeeze tube not for CPVC or PVC) on each individual nipple. It took between 2-3 minutes per nipple then I used Marine 5200 on rear wheel and E6000 on the front wheel. Why the difference? 5200 cost 3-4 times e6000. e6000 is self leveling . It can be found everywhere easily.
Prep is very important. Wire brush it clean clean clean. I used denatured alcohol to clean.
The separate nipple "glueing" is over kill. I waited 24 hours for it to cure. If you use 5200 I think it has a 24-48 cure time. E6000 has a 4-6 hour cure time. (I waited 24 hours).I also made a cardboard template of the inside of my rim to smooth the 5200 . The E6000 didn't need it so much. I preferred using a caulk gun cartridge vs a squeeze  tube
So many people have different ways to seal the rim. If you do it properly pretty much every method works.
I can't emphasize doing great prep work. The process is amazing fast to seal the rim after the prep work.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The problem is.. I have two guys who's judgement I trust. Martin says the tape is all I need, and John says the tape won't work.  The Kid says he has some out of date pro seal (aircraft fuel tank sealer) that by regulation has to be thrown away. He's never sent it to me, though. I *have* the tape.
Went to NAPA today to get the Tire valves. They had one.  Called another store and they don't have any.. I'm glad I'm not in a hurry..

[mtiberio]

The problem is.. I have two guys who's judgement I trust. Martin says the tape is all I need, and John says the tape won't work.  The Kid says he has some out of date pro seal (aircraft fuel tank sealer) that by regulation has to be thrown away. He's never sent it to me, though. I *have* the tape.
Went to NAPA today to get the Tire valves. They had one.  Called another store and they don't have any.. I'm glad I'm not in a hurry..

I used some old aircraft tank sealer on the wire wheels on my roadstar. Leaked when I was done. Was a mess to remove. YMMV.

[Groover]

In regards to sealing the middle part with all the spokes, I would opt for a tape type wrap that wraps around a few times, versus something that would brush on and fling without support - Centrifugal forces in mind here. I'll be watching, curious of the process you go with and final results. It sure is easier to watch this than doing the work 

[bigbikerrick]

Greg Field used a slightly different method that used a tube as the rim strip, and the valve stem from the tube. This is how I did the first conversion I ever did on a friends honda shadow with spoked wheels. Its been over 6 years and its still leak free. This guy puts alot of miles on his bike, and he has been through about 8 tire changes/mountings without any issues, or leaks.
Rick

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_tires_-_tubeless_conversion.html

[Huzo]

Well.
I did mine after 4 years with 3M marine sealant and did not use the 3M tape that I bought.
I found it creased unacceptably and did not sit down in the well with enough authority to give me confidence. Instead after sealing the (admittedly blind) nipples with the 3M brew, I then did one wrap of 100 mph tape as we call it , dunno about y'all.
So that the tape would not begin to lift away in general use with respect to warm environment and centrifugal force trying to lift it off, I also put two new rim tapes over the whole shooting match.
After all that, I immersed the rear in water and no leaks, and filled a tub then rotated the front wheel gradually and looked for bubbles.
Mercifully, no Michael Jackson action...!

[jacksonracingcomau]

so many ways to skin this cat
all seem easy prep being everything
only consistant failure seems to be factory Alpina o rings as supplied oe as tubeless (Huzo and search finds many more.)
This prob says why v85 has tubes

[Chuck in Indiana]

Closure to this thread. I blame Austin for my problems. 
I had decided to use the tape method, and Austin said, "I think it would be better if you sealed each nipple with goo, and then taped it."
Ok. Went to Home Depot and got a couple of tubes of loctite quick drying marine adhesive. Had everything prepped, thinking I'd be able to finesse that stuff around each nipple. No freakin way. It was too thick and difficult to move around. Made kind of a mess. Decided to continue on, let it dry and put the tape on the next day.
The tape wouldn't stick to the loctite. It stuck to the aluminum rim just fine, and left some wrinkles and air bubbles.  Even with Dorcia's help..if it touched the side of the rim before it touched the drop center, it was stuck.
Didn't like the looks of it but went ahead and put the tire on, ran the pressure up to 50 lbs. Squirted a mix of Dawn/water all over and didn't find any leaks.  Dropped the pressure to 36 and left it over night.
Went out in the morning, and it was 34.  Put it in my sink, ran 6 inches of water in it and slowly turned the wheel watching with a bright light. Eventually found one spoke nipple leaking. Marked it. Pulled the tire off, and had a look. The tape was a mess. Pulled that off and cleaned everything up with thinner. Didn't see any obvious leak at the leaking spoke. Hmmm.
Decided to coat the whole drop center. Made a spatula..
2019-02-18_10-41-43 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
and did that. Let it sit for 24 hours.
Put on the tire, checked for leaks, and set pressure at 35 psi. Went out this morning, and it was 36.    (cold air from the compressor in the hanger warming up in the shop overnight)
So.
About all I can say is use one or the other method. Not both..
I'll still say that that tape will probably be a booger to get laid down in the drop center without air bubbles, etc.
I'll use my other tube of goo on the back wheel.. and hope my saga will save someone else from doing what I did.

[LowRyter]

My Austin Healey is the last vehicle,(except for my Pan), I'll be owning w/wire wheels!

:-)

As a kid one my dad's friends owned a Big Healey.  IIRC, the thing would bounce all over the road at about 75 mph.

[Chuck in Indiana]

As a kid one my dad's friends owned a Big Healey.  IIRC, the thing would bounce all over the road at about 75 mph.

I had one when I was 20 or so.  It must have been indestructible, because I caned the tits off of it.  I remember one evening when I was making a run up to Michigan to see the Kid's mom  and I had it well over 100. That big six was roaring, the "bonnet" was shaking, and I was thinking, "Yeah. This is a *machine.* Stupid kid..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Oh. BTW. If you decide to forgo rim strips and just use duct tape.. you can call it a safety item instead of a bodge. You won't need to worry about the tire coming off the rim during a blowout. 
I started on the rear today, and had one expletive of a time getting the bead to break. The heat had made the adhesive in the duct tape ooze out and literally glue that sucker to the rim.  Also, it had pretty much filled up the spoke wells, and I've spent all afternoon digging it out of there. Maybe another hour or so and I'll have it cleaned up.
Just say no.. 

[jacksonracingcomau]

interesting re duct tape . I have used gaffa tape for rim tape for many years adhesive never melts

Mate recently did 3m tape job and then covered with gaffa for protection worked first time

but your lesson clear if he had used duct tape over 3m it would have flung off

tapes ain’t tapes

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck we have been around long enough to know that there is usually collateral damage/consequences'  on these types of capers...no?

  Oh, yeah. "If you look for trouble on an old machine, you will find it."

[Kiwi_Roy]

On my 72 Eldo I started out with tape and spoke covers cut from Duct tape but ended up with just GE 100% silicone, been running that way for 3 years now.
The nice thing if you don't get it right it usually results in a slow leak through one of the spoke threads.
A cheap plastic planter box makes a good water trough for testing for leaks while on the bike.

[John Croucher]

You skipped the most important part,  acetone.  Use the acetone to help smooth out and to wipe off excess.  It is a multi step, multi day process.  You just can't put a bunch on and try to smooth it out.

Toss the tape in the garbage or give to someone you do not like to patch their cheap above ground pool.

Put sealant on each spoke nipple and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.  (toxic stuff) Let it cure for a couple of days.

Put a second coat on all the way around the rim drop and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.

Go buy more beer, because you will be out by this time, put a third coat on and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.  Use paper towel dipped in acetone to clean up the mess on the rim.  Let set for 3 days to cure out.  Install valve stem, tire and inflate.

The acetone is crucial to getting a good smooth finish.  It keeps the sealant from sticking to your tools/finger tip and lifting up when you lift away from the sealant.  The 3M brand is made with acetone and it compatible. 

 

[LowRyter]

just a dumb question here,

If you ever had to tighten the spokes, would you punch a hole in the seal?

[John Croucher]

just a dumb question here,

If you ever had to tighten the spokes, would you punch a hole in the seal?

The next Owner can figure that out.  I have owned a lot of motorcycles with spoke wheels.  The only time I have tightened a spokes was while rebuilding.  I have seen them come loose, but only after one or more were damaged from impact. 

The sealant is 1/2 inch or more from the spoke nipple,  if some one was to rotate the nipple, it would most likely continued to be sealed.  If it did leak, it would be very easy to apply additional 3M sealant. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

You skipped the most important part,  acetone.  Use the acetone to help smooth out and to wipe off excess.  It is a multi step, multi day process.  You just can't put a bunch on and try to smooth it out.

Toss the tape in the garbage or give to someone you do not like to patch their cheap above ground pool.

Put sealant on each spoke nipple and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.  (toxic stuff) Let it cure for a couple of days.

Put a second coat on all the way around the rim drop and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.

Go buy more beer, because you will be out by this time, put a third coat on and smooth out with finger tip dipped in acetone.  Use paper towel dipped in acetone to clean up the mess on the rim.  Let set for 3 days to cure out.  Install valve stem, tire and inflate.

The acetone is crucial to getting a good smooth finish.  It keeps the sealant from sticking to your tools/finger tip and lifting up when you lift away from the sealant.  The 3M brand is made with acetone and it compatible. 

 

I read your first post on this. The only thing in the store was loctite.. supposedly the same as the quick dry 3M.. cheaper.  I used lacquer thinner instead of acetone.. it's still a nasty job, no matter how you do it.

If you ever had to tighten the spokes, would you punch a hole in the seal?

I found a couple of spokes that weren't as tight as the others, and tightened them up/checked trueness before starting this mess.  I would think that if a guy had to fool with spokes, it *could* be done, but it wouldn't be any picnic.
Definitely, you woudn't want any of Pete's "shaved apes" changing your tires. Both of my wheels have tire tool marks down in the drop center that would definitely damage the tape, and probably the adhesive.
Just the same, I think it's worthwhile to do. There is no freakin way I would have been able to get the rear wheel off, break the bead, fix or replace the tube and reassemble on the side of the road. It was hard enough sitting on The Box on the lift with a dropout. <shrug>

[Wayne Orwig]

Both of my wheels have tire tool marks down in the drop center that would definitely damage the tape, and probably the adhesive.

That type of thing is why I have been doing my own motorcycle tire changes for decades.

On a sort of related note. I just had tire put on the car. Don't have the tools to do it right, and can't readily carry and dispose of car tires, so I suffer through having someone else damage my car. 
While being done, I walked across the street for lunch. They called and said that I needed a new air filter in the car. WTF are you doing looking at my air filter. Put on the tires and do the job right.    I get back, they aren't mounted. They had stacked the tires I ordered a week ago on their sides, now the beads won't seat. I told them I had tools at home that I should have brought. Eventually they got it done, while I am now keeping a close eye on them. I got home, and found a fastener on the cabin air filter broken. The air filter cover flopping loose, and all 4 tires when cold are 8 PSI over. (checked with three accugauges)

Needless to say, they got a 'glowing' review from me on Google. If I did more car tires I would get those tools.

No thank you to having someone butcher my motorcycle in the shop when it can be done easily.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Unbelievable.    It truly *is* hard to find good help any more.. <shrug>

[Huzo]

just a dumb question here,

If you ever had to tighten the spokes, would you punch a hole in the seal?

Wrong again mate..
That is NOT a dumb question.
I grappled with that issue as well and concluded that if I have to tweak a spoke or replace one, the only barrier/s to leaks will be the tape and o rings. That'll be tire off, tape off and re seal the offending spoke.

[Huzo]

This prob says why v85 has tubes

Mine won't..

[Roebling3]

Hey Chuck.
Your dad had a 'big Healy'? With an inline 6 cylinder? Dual carbs? AKA, a Nash Healy?
Very cool. Very rare. Damned quick, back in the day. Gentlemen only need apply.  R3~ 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hey Chuck.
Your dad had a 'big Healy'? With an inline 6 cylinder? Dual carbs? AKA, a Nash Healy?
Very cool. Very rare. Damned quick, back in the day. Gentlemen only need apply.  R3~

No, I had a big Healey.  6 cylinder, dual carbs, but it was an Austin Healey.  I bought it with my first job after leaving the farm. I was rollin in dough.. making $2.45 an hour. 

[Roebling3]

Thanx, Chuck.
I had a close friend w/a 4 cylinder. Early missile tracking with RCA, Cape Canaveral. First time out it overheated. Factory installed cooling fan was on backwards. Bruce would go to work. I'd run the beach for a few hours. Drove a '54 V8 Nash Healey cpe. for a day. 3 spd. w/overdrive. R3~