2013 Norge Not Charging.

[fanattic]

After going through the fiasco of replacing a leaking oil pressure sensor, I put the bike back together and proceeded to go for a test ride. Within less than a mile, the dash lights started acting weird, then the engine started misfiring, then it died. Hit the starter and nothing. Got the bike back home, and realized my battery was dead.

It's the original battery so I bought a new one, installed it, and everything seemed fine. Took it out for a short test ride, about 5 miles, and all seemed good.

Then I took it for a longer ride yesterday, and after about 30 miles, the abs light came on, then went off, then the engine started misfiring, then died, just like with the old battery. New, fully charged battery was now definitely dead. I must have been riding only on it with no charging.

Had it towed back home, and I charged it all night. Today it started right up and everything looks good, except when I check the battery voltage on the display, it reads 12v.

Obviously I have a charging system problem. But there were no warning lights or any other indication that there was a problem. Is this normal? I would think with all the other lights, that the Norge would let you know the charging system isn't working.

I've checked the fuses and they all seem fine. I'm planning on taking the tank back off over the weekend and check that I didn't mess up any wiring under it or at the alternator, though I sure don't look forward to messing with that damned airbox again.

So has anyone else had this problem or know of a likely cause? Maybe alternator belt? (Bike has less than 12k miles though) Maybe I messed up a wire or left a connector undone? And I don't understand why it wasn't letting me know that it's not charging.

OK, thanks for any suggestions.

[NWrider]

Seems that the first thing to do is check the battery voltage as the bike is running to see what the alternator output is.  If you confirm that it's not putting out 13.6 - 14.1 volts or so, then check all connections in the charging circuit and, check the alternator belt, it could be slipping or broken.   Go to thisoldtractor.com and see if you can locate the electrical diagram for your model.

[fanattic]

Bike was running when I checked the voltage. It sat steady at 12v.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Another thing to check is the belt hasn't broken.

[fanattic]

I'm planning on doing that (checking the belt), but wouldn't a light come on? I mean, with all the wizz-bang electronics these days, I can't imagine there is no charging system warning indicator. Even my 66 BMW with the simplest wiring in the world has one of those.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I wouldn't count on it the earlier alternators had a light but it didn't work under all circumstances
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge_ABS.gif
Check the "A" fuse as well
I'm not as familiar with these charging systems as I am with the earlier ones but I believe the Voltage regulator is internal to the alternator.

[guzzimatic]

I had a belt break on the alternator in the middle of Utah last year.learned a lot,but first all you have to do to check the belt is remove the rubber plug on the front cover just below the oil cooler.mine looked like a rat nest of fibers,no doubt the belt had failed... It only takes a moment to check and eliminate that as a cause. Unfortunately it took me a few hours to figure this out,and another day to get a replacement and install it in the parking lot of the auto parts store. On the plus side I made it to Tahoe in time for my friend's memorial...good luck!

[Brian UK]

First question, is the headlight on?
For some reason best known to Guzzi the headlight relay also feeds the reference voltage to the alternator and rotor. So if that fails, then the alternator won't charge.
There are two fuses which can cause this, a 15 Amp one which supplies the relay coil, fuse B in the auxiliary fuses, and a 20 Amp one which supplies the headlight. If either blows, you get no charging.
Find the light logic relay which is up front, under the fairing, left hand side. Sort of under the dash. Bridge terminals 87 and 30, and see if you get the headlight and charging.

[Mackers]

I had an intermittent charging issue with my Breva 1100.  Also the headlight was intermittent.  Turned out to be a faulty 30-amp fuse.  I've heard of a similar problem with a Sport 1200 which was due to a dirty 30-amp fuse holder.

[Kiwi_Roy]

First question, is the headlight on?
For some reason best known to Guzzi the headlight relay also feeds the reference voltage to the alternator and rotor. So if that fails, then the alternator won't charge.
There are two fuses which can cause this, a 15 Amp one which supplies the relay coil, fuse B in the auxiliary fuses, and a 20 Amp one which supplies the headlight. If either blows, you get no charging.
Find the light logic relay which is up front, under the fairing, left hand side. Sort of under the dash. Bridge terminals 87 and 30, and see if you get the headlight and charging.

Yes, the logic around the Alternator is a bit puzzling for sure, looking at the various CARC bikes theres a variety of wiring.
There's no substitute for owner experience, thanks Brian.

Fanatic,
           Any news on the belt status, I won't look further until I hear back.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Here's a thread I did on changing the belt, it was on a Griso but should apply to the other CARC bikes as well


Although I was in the comfort of the garage I deliberately restricted myself to the tools I normally carry on the bike.
Allen Keys, 4,5 & 6mm (these have a ball end but it's just a nice to have)
Ring/Open end wrench 13mm, a small adjustable would do at a pinch.

Remove bottom 4 cover screws
Remove ECU cover and ECU holding bolts, swing it out of the way.
Remove the 5th cover screw and the breather box standoff which also acts as a cover screw.
Loosen the 6mm clamping screw at about 11 o'clock with regard to the alternator pulley.
Remove the cheek from the right hand side of tank
Loosen the locknut on the belt adjuster, easily accessed once the cheek is out of the way.
Back off the belt adjuster until at least 1/2" of thread is exposed
Squeeze the belt together so the alternator swings down, if the belt is broken lever the alternator down

Place new belt around alternator pulley, start it around crank pulley
Turn the crank with a wrench or crank it with the starter and the belt will pop on.
Re-tighten the belt tensioner and the locknut. I just put it back where it was but also noted it was easy to twist the belt through 90° in between pulleys. It should also be possible to turn the motor over using a small wrench on the alternator pulley nut, a little slip would be ok.
Re-tighten the 6mm Allen clamp screw
Refit cover
Bolt back the ECU and cover.

The original belt at 40,000 km has a few small stones embedded in it probably from the Dempster trip but still has plenty of life left, I will carry it as a spare.

I probably missed a step or two, I will review the notes I made this evening\


Showing the breather standoff bolt/cover screw.


Cover removed showing top two fasteners


Showing the Allen key in alternator clamp bolt
You can also see the Belt tension adjuster


It's much easier to access the adjuster if you remove the right tank cheek


Back the screw off at least 1/2" (15mm)

[Brian UK]

Don't bother with the belt until you have confirmed the headlight is on. Far simpler visual check, and if it's not on, then the belt will almost certainly not be the problem.

[fanattic]

Thanks everyone for all the advice so far.

I just did a quick check. The lights are working fine, and I can see through the plug hole that the belt is fine and spins when the engine is running.

The fuses test good, and the fuse holders all look good, at least the ones I can see, which are the two sets in front of the battery, (20, 30, 40 amp) and the one behind the battery with all the lower amp fuses. The fuse holders and all the connections I've seen were clean and free of obvious corrosion.

The bike has been garage kept, has not been ridden much in the rain, and I'm somewhat obsessive about keeping it clean. It has 12.5k miles.

I'm beginning to think that I either disturbed a connection behind the alternator, or perhaps left one off when I was replacing the oil pressure sensor. I remember looking carefully at the alternator when I got the airbox out, and don't remember seeing any visual problems. I can't remember however if I messed with any connectors. I would have only done so to check them while I had access. When I do things like taking the tank off and airbox out, I usually try to clean those areas to keep them tidy and slow corrosion. (soft rag, sometimes a little Simple Green).

I guess my next step is to remove the tank & airbox again. At least this time, I'll have a better idea of how to get it out and back in again. From what I read on other posts, and from my own experience, I just need to yank and push harder than I normally would like to.

I'll keep an eye on this thread if anyone has any more suggestions.

Dave

[fanattic]

Looks like I found it. I'm a dumb ass, the top 2 prong plug on the back of the alternator was not connected. I'll update when I get everything back together.

Thanks for help though. I'm still learning about these bikes. They're a world different than my old 66 Beemer.

[tazio]

 
Thanks for posting back with your findings.

[fanattic]

She's all together and everything seems fine. Charging at 13.9 - 14.0 just over idle. Hopefully there's nothing else wrong, and I thank everyone for their help. I really still love this bike but that airbox situation is damned near impossible to deal with. Hope I'll not be going back in there for a long time.

[Kiwi_Roy]

When dealing with the connections I always have a tube of Vaseline handy, the grease seals out the Oxygen so they don't corrode.
Did you disconnect the pump wires then try to start the bike? That makes it much easier to release the quick connect fitting.
Im glad it was something simple.

[Lannis]

Looks like I found it. I'm a dumb ass, the top 2 prong plug on the back of the alternator was not connected. I'll update when I get everything back together.

Thanks for help though. I'm still learning about these bikes. They're a world different than my old 66 Beemer.

Thanks for the followup.   You've not done a thing that we all haven't done before.   Lesson from this one .... "Go back to where you last had your hands on it and start from there!"   

Lannis

[fanattic]

So true Lannis. I'm actually happy it was my mistake because I need the bike to be reliable, and so far, except for the oil pressure sensor, it has been. This most recent problem is one I created myself and not the bike's fault. Kiwi_Roy, I forgot about starting the bike before removing the fuel line. It was more trouble this time. One does just wiggle and pull it off though right? No special tool involved? I had watched a youtube video the first time I pulled the tank and that's what he did.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes, someone posted on here to try and start it with the pump powered down, it takes the pressure off the fitting, makes it much easier to unclip.