is my valeo stater solenoid bad (updated)

[amamet]

well, I gambled and lost.  got a new solenoid...and the same, no spin.  should have looked inside before I bought the solenoid.  magnets delaminated and were busted up all over the place, hence no spin.  will get a new starter.  at least I have spare new solonoid :/


while the starter is out on the bench I wanted to test it remembering I was having issues when I disassemble my 77 lemans.  using my battery and cables as a jumper source, I ground the body and connecting the red to the spade, the gear popped forward. seems fine, right? then I touched the post where it connects to the harness and nothing, no spinning.  I then touched the other post, which I believe is the hot directly to the starter and it spins up nice and fast.  bad solenoid?
thanks
allen

[guzzisteve]

Use only 2 posts. Spade on solenoid makes it jump out           large power post direct to batt terminal makes it spin.   Sounds like it's fine.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The problem I've had with Valeos over the years is blowing the start fuse when they are hot. They'll test fine in the shop. Fortunately, you can buy a new one from Amazon for less than 70 bucks. Made in a little town in California.. Chino, I think?  The new Guzzis use the same one, IMHO.

[Wayne Orwig]

while the starter is out on the bench I wanted to test it remembering I was having issues when I disassemble my 77 lemans.  using my battery and cables as a jumper source, I ground the body and connecting the red to the spade, the gear popped forward. seems fine, right? then I touched the post where it connects to the harness and nothing, no spinning.  I then touched the other post, which I believe is the hot directly to the starter and it spins up nice and fast.  bad solenoid?

Not clear.

If you apply ground to the body. Apply the positive clamp to the large solenoid stud. Then you apply positive to the spade terminal. That should spin it.

[amamet]

ok, to clarify, using a spare battery and jumper cables, black cable from battery to starter body, red cable from battery to post that harness attaches to.  at that point nothing, thats normal.  jump post with red cable to spade terminal, gear pops forward but doesn't spin.  leave black cable as ground and remove red cable and jumper.  touch red cable to other post (which is wired to starter body) and gear spins

[Kiwi_Roy]

Are you saying there os no connection between the two large posts of the starter solenioid, that only happens once the gear is in place it should be if you have a good connection to the spade connector.
So red clip to solenoid terminal bolt and also a wire to touch the spade connector.  Be aware the solenoid will draw 50 Amps and will create quite a spark so be deliberate in your action.

[amamet]

correct roy, positive from battery to solenoid post and a wire to the  spade terminal.  gear pops forward but doesn't spin

[Chuck in Indiana]

correct roy, positive from battery to solenoid post and a wire to the  spade terminal.  gear pops forward but doesn't spin

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0081SAT1I?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
 

[amamet]

so are you saying its bad chuck?  can't I just get a new solenoid?

[Chuck in Indiana]

so are you saying its bad chuck?  can't I just get a new solenoid?

Sure you can.
comma but..
Sounds to me like the motor itself is TU if the solenoid drives the plunger home and it doesn't spin. It'll cost you 60 some bux to have a new one and forget the problem.

[amamet]

It spins just fine if I touch the other post which is wired to the starter motor itself. That’s what makes me think it’s just the Solonoid. Euromotoelectrics sells the solonoid for $40 I think. I’ll order a replacement Only if I know for sure it’s the solonoid

[Wayne Orwig]

It may just be that the wiring or battery isn't up to the task of pulling the solenoid AND close the contacts AND spin the starter.

Hard to imagine that, but maybe.

[amamet]

It’s in the bench and I’m using cables and good battery. Tried it with a spare Bosch starter. Gear pops forward and spins on the Bosch where the valeo just pops forward unless, like I mentioned earlier, I touch the post connected to the starter itself, then it spins

[Kiwi_Roy]

It sounds like the solenoid is not able to achieve full travel and close the contacts.
Tell us a bit more about the bike, how old is it?, what's the milage? The solenoid has two large terminals, the battery and the starter terminal, they may look the same but they are NOT interchangeable. If you take your multimeter and measure from the spade terminal you will find one of the large terminals seems like short, that one goes to the starter motor brush, the large terminal that is open goes to the battery. You will also find another circuit from the spade terminal to the body of the solenoid.
There are thousands of pictures on the net of a Valeo solenoid but very few that show what's going on inside and the very rare one that shows two coils. I don't seem to be able to copy paste those images here unfortunately.
Not all solenoids are created equal, you must get the correct one for your starter, is it possible someone has replaced it in the past with the wrong one?

 

[Tom H]

After reading all of this, I agree that it's an issue with the solenoid.

I have yet to play with a Valeo solenoid. If it is built like the Bosch, it can be pulled apart and the contact for the battery cable to the starter cable inside the solenoid cleaned.

You may not NEED to buy a new solenoid or starter.

Tom

[wirespokes]

After reading all of this, I agree that it's an issue with the solenoid.

I have yet to play with a Valeo solenoid. If it is built like the Bosch, it can be pulled apart and the contact for the battery cable to the starter cable inside the solenoid cleaned.

You may not NEED to buy a new solenoid or starter.

Tom

Tom - as I recall, the valeo solenoid is crimped together - no taking it apart unless your creative.

[lucian]

sounds like worn contacts in solenoid, I have a Lucas starter in my Case tractor that every couple of years I have to pull the solenoid apart and build up the contact points with silver solder and then file flat. works a treat for a couple more years. The only touchy part is you have to un solder the little wires on the top of the end cap  and solder them back when done. I clean the little holes in the cap out with a small drill bit and it makes putting it back together easy. Cost, about 25 cents  and a couple hours time.  Maybe spring the 40  bucks for  the new one and try your hand at fixing the old one for a spare.

[Wayne Orwig]

Tom - as I recall, the valeo solenoid is crimped together - no taking it apart unless your creative.

Yes, the ones I have worked on are crimped. Pretty much toast.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yes, the ones I have worked on are crimped. Pretty much toast.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0081SAT1I?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
  

[wirespokes]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0081SAT1I?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
  

Makes sense spending a little more and keeping the old for spares.

I think they made a mistake saying that starter would work on an airhead. It's spins the wrong direction. To change direction requires reorienting magnets. But not only that, the mounting is different for the two.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Makes sense spending a little more and keeping the old for spares.

I think they made a mistake saying that starter would work on an airhead. It's spins the wrong direction. To change direction requires reorienting magnets. But not only that, the mounting is different for the two.

When the first one went out on the Mighty Scura, it was still out in SoCal. Mark at MG Classics had a box full of dead starters from when he was a dealer, and told me to rummage through them. "They'll either have dropped the magnets, or the solenoid is bad. Find one that won't spin, and take the solenoid off of it." 
I did that, and it had been fine for several years until last year going to the Wisconsin rally. It started blowing the fuse. Did the Startus Interuptus fix, and it seemed fine in the shop. Took it for a ride, and it blew the fuse 50 miles from home. 
Thought to myself, "For 60 some bucks, I can have a new starter, and throw this one in the "parts" pile. Then.. the Bosch on the AeroLaro went tits up.  You can't even buy the parts to fix it for 60 some bucks. I now have two new Valeos that appear to be at least OEM quality, and two junk starters for parts. Trying to fix one when new ones are so cheap (Guzzi content) doesn't pencil out. <shrug>

[ejs]

Try wacking the solenoid with something..
If starter spins up, then most likely the contacts inside solenoid is bad.
Had to do that for a month before changing starter.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Try wacking the solenoid with something..
If starter spins up, then most likely the contacts inside solenoid is bad.
Had to do that for a month before changing starter.

That's often applied to Startus Interuptus, In this case the solenoid is pulling the gear into place, nothing to be lost though.
Even though the contacts are sealed it wouldn't hurt to pull it apart as much as you can and wipe any oil out of the works, it should be dry although I usually use a couple of drops of 3 in 1.