Carrier Bearing Advice Needed

[wirespokes]

I'd recently noticed a sound and vibration within a few blocks of initial startup around the right footpeg. It seemed like a rough bearing and decided it must be the carrier bearing. After the first couple blocks, the symptoms went away and all was fine. It's an 85LM.

Parked it, ordered a new bearing and tore into it today. The bearing is fine, not rough at all. The UJoint where it rides in the bearing is marked indicating it's been rotating inside the inner bearing race. It's not scored.

What should I do? The UJoint surface has no lube on it - should I put some moly lube on it and call it good? Put some loctite on it so it's fixed solidly?

Thanks for your help!

[Wayne Orwig]

Do you mean the SPLINES have no lube?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The u-joint shouldn't spin in the carrier bearing. I use bearing retainer and (in some extreme cases) make rows of small peen marks on the u-joint to make it fit snug in the carrier bearing.

[wirespokes]

Wayne - the splines are lubed. No problem there.

Charlie - Ok. So the UJoint shouldn't spin in the carrier bearing. I've never needed or used bearing retainer so have none. If it's not sloppy, would red loctite work?

Any specific bearing retainer to recommend? Guess I'll have to hit a nearby FLAPS.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I think it's Loctite 609 I use, need to check to be sure though.
https://www.mcmaster.com/91458A230

[John A]

I’d put in the new bearing, it’s one of those things that if I can see it, I replace it.  I’ve had them come apart and lock up the drive line which at speed in traffic can be more exciting than I care for.  Besides that, it tears up expensive parts .  They start talking to you before that and it seems like that one has started whispering bad things.

[wirespokes]

No one had any Loctite 609, but NAPA had a small tube of another brand bearing retainer.

I cleaned off the bearing inner race and the UJoint and put them together. A little while later I was struggling with the swingarm trying to get the UJoint to line up with the trans output shaft. Realized it would be lots easier if I put the UJoint on the trans and then ran the SArm and carrier bearing onto it. No luck - I couldn't remove the UJoint. It was already glued in. Took a little longer to get it together, but that was the roughest part - getting the UJoint onto the output shaft.

Thanks for the warning John. This bearing has just a little over 5K on it and feels silky smooth so I left it. But after what you said, any nonsense and it's outa there! Did you have any warning before yours failed?

[John A]

Yes, I was noticing a noise that I couldn’t place,  seemed like a slight vibration, both intermittent.  Since I was planning a long trip I made sure it would run 100 mph ok .  On my way home from that I was running about 70 and the back wheel stopped.  Then it let loose but shortly stopped again, all the while making real bad sounds. I got to the shoulder ok without being killed and this was on I20 through Shreveport.  It was a month after the warranty had expired on a Cal2.  I asked customer service at Moto Guzzi/Maserati politely and they sent me a new swing arm and u joint.  As it turned out it had also cracked some bevel box gear teeth but that didn’t show itself for about a year.

[wirespokes]

Well done riding it through! On my very first motorcycle (Honda 150 dream) in 1966, a sprocket bolt came loose and locked up the wheel at about 35 mph. It slid one way, then the other, back and forth a couple times before coming to rest. Kind of a weird feeling pulling in the clutch and the rear wheel still won't roll! Funny how much can happen in a few moments, all the thoughts and ideas and stuff you try to resolve the situation in a short amount of time.

So it's very well done keeping it up through all that! I know what it's like - serious pucker moment. I haven't forgotten mine all these years later.

If I feel or hear anything more from that area, I'm putting in the new bearing! It's easy enough getting in there.

[larrys]

I’d put in the new bearing, it’s one of those things that if I can see it, I replace it.  I’ve had them come apart and lock up the drive line which at speed in traffic can be more exciting than I care for.  Besides that, it tears up expensive parts .  They start talking to you before that and it seems like that one has started whispering bad things.

I would replace the carrier bearing. I pulled the swing arm on my Cal to replace a rotted boot and found the same issue that the OP had. Only my u-joint had been spinning in the carrier bearing for so long that the inner race had turned blue and cracked into four pieces.  I replaced the bearing and the u-joint.

Larry

[wirespokes]

Verry interresting! Looks like one of those areas to watch closely.

I am a little concerned about disassembling mine when the time comes. I get the idea it's REALLY glued in there, and the package says 500F is needed to break the bond. In hindsight three little equidistant dots of the glue around the mating surface might have been sufficient.

Are there any tricks to getting the UJoint to line up and slide onto the output shaft? That was the most difficult part of the whole job.

[moto-uno]

 I start by rolling the rubber boot back onto the swingarm , I also take the 4 lower frame rail nuts off and back the bolts
out until the threaded section is flush with the frame mounting plates , I also have the rear drive box removed . It sounds
like a lot of parts to remove , BUT it is really easy to bring the swingarm up from below and slide the u joint splines onto
the output shaft . Try it . Peter

[Chuck in Indiana]

BUT it is really easy to bring the swingarm up from below and slide the u joint splines onto
the output shaft .

This..

[wirespokes]

Ok - thanks for that! I can see how that would be much easier.

Isn't it funny how spending a little more time removing stuff can decrease total time spent by a bunch?

[lucky phil]

If you still have the issue look at the rear wheel bearings carefully. I had an intermittent clunky feel through the r/h footpeg on my V11 on a "floating" throttle which turned out to be a shot rear wheel bearing.

Ciao

[wirespokes]

Thanks, Phil.

Like your signature line. LOL

And the point of all this is - don't be passive about those vibrations! Resolve the issue as the consequences aren't pleasant. I had contemplated continuing to use the bike till it got worse and more obvious what the problem was, but instead opened it up believing it could be only one thing. Besides, the vibes bugged me, even though it was only for a few moments early in the ride. Now I know it's not an issue to take lightly! If I'm not in a position to park the bike, but need to get home, I'll definitely slow way down and take it easy. But the best course is to park the bike and find the bad bearing.

[wirespokes]

Took care of that carrier bearing and the vibration is gone. But now I'm putting a clutch in the LM3 and wonder what the accepted practice is for assembling the UJoint into the carrier bearing?

If it fits snug - do nothing?

Or - no matter how it fits, use some bearing retainer anyway?

[moto-uno]

  If it's snug fit , a bit of bearing retainer may allow it to slip into place a bit easier , but haste is kinda important .
I made a sleeve that slipped into the swingarm that kept the joint from wobbling about (and adding no small
frustration to the assembly process) . If you do this twice in a lifetime it's worth it !  Peter