Author Topic: 2004 Stone "lectric (Read 3023 times)

bacongrease · « **on:** July 12, 2020, 06:20:00 PM »

So I get the non-running Stone. Cleaned the fuel lings, injectors. new relays, fuses. It cranked and has gas and spark but no start. I download Guzzidiag. While awaiting the cables from Lonelec. After a number of attempts to start, (checking stuff) I turn on the key and poof the red light goes out, no crank. Now what. re check relays and fuses, , but still nothing.
If I run the guzzidiag will anything show up? or will I fry something. I dont know where to turn next.

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2020, 06:29:57 PM »

Are you certain your battery is good?
It won't start on the side stand if you have that down, if the switch is still plugged in that is.
Kill switch?

bacongrease · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2020, 06:51:46 PM »

new battery, I even swapped out with the Harley one.'
Kickstand is up, its on a lift.? ?

bacongrease · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2020, 07:21:06 PM »

ah ha...I am blowing fuses at the #6, ECU i believe. That does not bode well....

bacongrease · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2020, 07:30:51 PM »

Taken care of....Fuse No.6 of 7; front to back. Carls diagram shows 6, while there are 7 fuses on this bike..

so, big day tomorrow...running the guzzidiag and see what is wrong with this beast ....

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2020, 10:45:14 PM »

Re your non running Stone, do you hear the pump prime?
If the hose popped off inside the tank it would have those symptoms, look inside the tank to see if you can spot any fuel swirling around.

bacongrease · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2020, 10:48:56 PM »

yes, i hear it, i am getting fuel.

say, when i hook up GuzziDiag, where can I find the correct readings for the Stone? ? When it shows some reading, how will I know if it is within spec ?

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2020, 01:10:34 AM »

You said you solved the fuse problem
I'm trying to understand how you can have fuel and spark but it won't run.
After the fuel pump has primed it stops and waits for the engine to crank. When the Engine position sensor picks up that the engine is turning it re-starts the pump. It might be an idea to monitor the fuel pump with a small light, then you will know that the sensor is working, you won't hear it over the clatter of the starter. Sorry, I was thinking V7, its going to be more like this isn't it.
The first time it runs is on a simple timer, the second time only happens when the crank position sensor tells it to, sometimes an owner will put an extra gasket to try and stop a leak, don't do that.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2002_Stone.gif
Do you hear the clunk of the petcock when you open/close the kill switch. If yours is still working take a small ty-wrap and fix the wires to the body so they don't flex where they come out of the body.
The Sidestand relay might be open.
Fuse 1 should be alive.
Yes as Steve says, which fuse is blowing from the rear of the bike.
I assume you are looking under the RH side cover.

guzzisteve · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2020, 07:52:07 AM »

Quote from: bacongrease on July 12, 2020, 10:48:56 PM

yes, i hear it, i am getting fuel.

say, when i hook up GuzziDiag, where can I find the correct readings for the Stone? ? When it shows some reading, how will I know if it is within spec ?

You go to preferences and select California 1100 after year 2000, make sure it says for 15M ECU
If you read the service manual it tells you what is normal for ea sensor
I would start by reading the GuzziDiag thread.
If your ECU fuse is blowing, DoNot put in a larger fuse, find the issue in wiring 1st
#5 fuse is ECU(5a) #6 fuse is pump, coil, fuel inj (15a)

Tkelly · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:00:40 AM »

Cold be the crank sensor, had them fail on 2 bikes.Try a new one .if that is not the problem you have a good one when the original fails.I carry a spare.

bacongrease · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:52:10 PM »

Its running...Thank You guys for all your assistance.

s1120 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2020, 07:47:03 AM »

Quote from: bacongrease on July 13, 2020, 09:52:10 PM

Its running...Thank You guys for all your assistance.

What turned out to be the issue?

bacongrease · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2020, 09:50:19 AM »

No idea...

I hooked up and ran GuzziDiag, everything I checked appeared to be in spec. It fired right up...

This bike has every farkle available, but no gauges. So that was interesting. He used the GPS and and electronic speedo.

He thru in two sets of side covers, tanks, 3 extra wheels, 3 exhaust systems, 3 extra tires, tail lights . etc.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2020, 11:07:26 AM »

Quote from: bacongrease on July 14, 2020, 09:50:19 AM

No idea...

I hooked up and ran GuzziDiag, everything I checked appeared to be in spec. It fired right up...

This bike has every farkle available, but no gauges. So that was interesting. He used the GPS and and electronic speedo.

He thru in two sets of side covers, tanks, 3 extra wheels, 3 exhaust systems, 3 extra tires, tail lights . etc.

Hmmm. Weird. Did you use a breakout harness on the TPS? Maybe that connection was corroded and unhooking, rehooking did it? <scratching head>

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2020, 11:29:15 AM »

See if this is anything like the wiring under the side cover. I drew this to explain where all the wires go, understand the wiring under the side cover and you have 50% of it covered.

How noisy is the fuel pump, if the petcock is not open or the filter plugged they make a lot of racket. The filters get plugged with rust because the recessed tank filler drain rusts up sending water into the tank.

beard · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2020, 12:25:55 PM »

Once I got a problem too:

The bike runs with the GuzzuDiag connected but not without.

The problem was the ground connection of the ECU. With the adapter it gots GND from the 'other' side.
So check also all GND connections.

bacongrease · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2020, 04:48:00 PM »

Hey guys, which way do we count the fuses? is #1 start at the front of the bike ? I cant tell from the wiring diagram.

it was running good for about a dozen starts, now it is blowing fuses.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2020, 09:56:12 PM »

Start from the rear
Is my sketch no good?
I did draw it from a 98 EV
Which ECU do you have the large P8 or the small 15M?
There are known issues with the fuel pump/filter very easy to fix.

bacongrease · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2020, 08:51:19 PM »

thanks for the sketch...it will a help when I get back to that. What little time I had I had to remove the flat rear tire.

s1120 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2020, 07:38:49 AM »

If you havent yet might be a good time to pull and clean all grounds on the bike. Also hit all connections with contact cleaner might be a good idea also.

bacongrease · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2020, 10:39:03 AM »

Quote from: guzzisteve on July 13, 2020, 07:52:07 AM

You go to preferences and select California 1100 after year 2000, make sure it says for 15M ECU
If you read the service manual it tells you what is normal for ea sensor
I would start by reading the GuzziDiag thread.
If your ECU fuse is blowing, DoNot put in a larger fuse, find the issue in wiring 1st
#5 fuse is ECU(5a) #6 fuse is pump, coil, fuel inj (15a)

Carls diagram says all 15a. (2002 )

I will now count from the rear.

the 2004 manual has:
F1 39A battery
F2 15A key switch
F3 20A headlight, stop lights
F4 5A lights, indicators
F5 15A power outlet (ECU?)
F6 5A IAW15RC (smudged in book, cant read )
F7 10A pump, injectors

.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2020, 11:56:37 AM »

Quote from: bacongrease on July 16, 2020, 10:39:03 AM

Carls diagram says all 15a. (2002 )
(they did that for a while, the fuse is really to protect the wiring its not indicative of the load on the circuit)

I will now count from the rear.

the 2004 manual has:
F1 39A battery (this must be a new fuse perhaps they got wise and provided a main fuse to prevent total melt down (see my note 3))
F2 15A key switch
F3 20A headlight, stop lights
F4 5A lights, indicators
F5 15A power outlet (ECU?)
F6 5A IAW15RC (I think that is the ECU) the ECU doesn't use much power Brown wire should go directly from fuse to relay 30 terminal As Guzzi Steve said you need to figure out why this is blowing
F7 10A pump, injectors (seems right)

.

You might be better off identifying the circuits going by wire colours, Guzzi seem to have a fairly standard colour scheme
One thing about the Guzzi fuel injected bikes the ECU wiring is like a sub loom, the wiring associated with the ECU is usually fairly robust it will include the pump, injectors, coils and anything wired to the ECU
You can draw a line around the ECU and all of the associated wiring if you include the top two fuses.
The one way connector (61) is just pulses for the tacho
The one way connector (60) is permission to run from the rest of the bike Kill switch, stand relay etc etc
Do you have a fuel petcock a chrome plated dongle at the fuel tank, they can cause a bit of grief at times. I think they might have been phased out but the fuse was still there for a while.

Lets assume this diagram is quite close to what you have.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2002_Stone.gif
Pin 22 0f the ECU supplies 5 Volts DC for the TPS and a couple of other sensors
It doesn't supply any other current but it does ground lots of inputs Coils injectors etc but they are powered up by the ECU Load relay
BTW Relay 52/30 is powered from the Green/White wire (missing) when that relay closes it energizes the ECU power relay coil the ECU is holding its pin 19 to chassis
While we are discussing grounding I have seen at times the grounds burnt off the ECU usually caused by an owner unbolting the positive wire first snd shorting his wrench to the ECU letting out the magic smoke, quite spectacular but not very serious.
See the Safety Diode (51), thats there to prevent the ECU relay closing if an owner accidentally puts the battery in backwards, you'd be surprised how often that happens.

bacongrease · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2020, 02:21:31 PM »

I did put in the battery backwards ( out of the Harley ) but I knew pos. to pos. etc.

Shitfire Matilda. The 3 places in this one horse town (+NAPA backordered at the warehouse) were out of 15a fuses.
so I ride over to the next town, first two businesses, out. O'Reilly had one package, $4.45 for TWO.
back to the shop...

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2020, 05:59:43 PM »

Quote from: bacongrease on July 16, 2020, 02:21:31 PM

I did put in the battery backwards ( out of the Harley ) but I knew pos. to pos. etc.

Shitfire Matilda. The 3 places in this one horse town (+NAPA backordered at the warehouse) were out of 15a fuses.
so I ride over to the next town, first two businesses, out. O'Reilly had one package, $4.45 for TWO.
back to the shop...

[/b]

I went to O'Reilly one time for an 1157 bulb. They had a blister pack of 2 for 5 bucks. I complained to the counter guy I knew about highway robbery, etc, and he said, "I can probably get you a deal on quanity.." Sure enough.. he had a pack of 10 for $4.

Vagrant · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2020, 06:11:59 PM »

O'Reilly usually has a big (like 20) blister of fuses for about $5. too.

bacongrease · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2020, 06:22:41 PM »

Yes, saw several assortment, $19.95

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2020, 07:51:44 PM »

I hate to say it but its possible we might have been looking at the wrong drawing all this time
Have a look at this one, 7 fuses
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_EV_Catalytic.gif
F5 - Power Outlet is a salient point.
Note the 0ne way connector (60) has morphed into a 2 way
Note it also has a direct connect Voltage regulator, much better IMHO

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Author Topic: 2004 Stone "lectric (Read 3023 times)

beard