Urgent Service

[ediehl]

I just bought a 2016 Eldorado with 5100 miles (up close to 6K) now), and I'm experiencing that message. The bike tends to idle too fast all the time (1500 to 2K), and the message is sporadic. Might go a week without happening, or happen twice in one ride. Sometimes it's between just plain SERVICE, and other times it alternates between URGENT and SERVICE. Sometimes it goes from one message to the other.  Usually shutting down and restarting once or twice will sort it out for the time being. Sometimes the URGENT message doesn't seem to affect the running of the bike, and other times I have to pull over and the bike sits there with the engine running up and down from around 1500 RPM to around 2000 RPM. I took a video of it doing that today. I see from this forum that this issue has happened for other folk---is there a particular post that would be helpful to a modestly capable wrench with limited electrical skills? The bike was bought new in May 2019 and the remaining warranty is supposedly transferred to me. Unfortunately there are no longer any Guzzi dealers in western SC, to my knowledge---I think the closest may be somewhere near Charlotte. Anyone familiar with that shop? From what I've read, sounds like nobody is going to have any parts anyway. 

[Dilliw]

Is it out of warranty?  The mechanic who worked at Mathews Fun Machines is or was at Privateer Connection in Leslie, SC. 

Team Charlotte bought the Guzzi business from Mathews.  They are a large, multi brand outfit but I don't have any experience with them since I moved from Rock Hill.

On my Griso the idle will sometimes hang up and I've been told that its a stuck stepper motor.  It doesn't throw a Service warning however. 

Last item, if you are in Western SC then the Guzzi Blue Ridge (not a rally) rally is the weekend of July 31st in Cruso, NC (276 on the other side of the BRP).  Come on over!

[bikeridertim]

I have had service at Team Charlotte in Charlotte on my MGX. I have been very happy with them. Brad is the Technician and Tee Caldwell is in charge of that part of the dealership.
Tee is very helpful and a good guy to deal with! 

[ediehl]

Is it out of warranty?  The mechanic who worked at Mathews Fun Machines is or was at Privateer Connection in Leslie, SC. 

Team Charlotte bought the Guzzi business from Mathews.  They are a large, multi brand outfit but I don't have any experience with them since I moved from Rock Hill.

On my Griso the idle will sometimes hang up and I've been told that its a stuck stepper motor.  It doesn't throw a Service warning however. 

Last item, if you are in Western SC then the Guzzi Blue Ridge (not a rally) rally is the weekend of July 31st in Cruso, NC (276 on the other side of the BRP).  Come on over!

Thanks, I'll look into that rally!

[ediehl]

I have had service at Team Charlotte in Charlotte on my MGX. I have been very happy with them. Brad is the Technician and Tee Caldwell is in charge of that part of the dealership.
Tee is very helpful and a good guy to deal with! 

Very glad to hear that! If I can't get this sorted out (I'm hoping for something simple, like a bad connection ), I'll give Team Charlotte a shout

[Kiwi Dave]

I experienced the Urgent Service on my Cali 1400 Custom.  It had me baffled for quite some time, until I found there was a fault in the clutch micro-switch.  This switch is a single pole double throw variety that uses all the connectors in the system.  Mine was only half broken, i.e. one side of the switch was working fine, which threw my diagnostics for a long time.

A quick check with a multi-meter will confirm whether you have both sides of the switch working correctly, and if not then reveal the cause of your urgent service icon.

[ediehl]

Some great advice!

I experienced the Urgent Service on my Cali 1400 Custom.  It had me baffled for quite some time, until I found there was a fault in the clutch micro-switch.  This switch is a single pole double throw variety that uses all the connectors in the system.  Mine was only half broken, i.e. one side of the switch was working fine, which threw my diagnostics for a long time.

A quick check with a multi-meter will confirm whether you have both sides of the switch working correctly, and if not then reveal the cause of your urgent service icon.

[Ncdan]

I have had service at Team Charlotte in Charlotte on my MGX. I have been very happy with them. Brad is the Technician and Tee Caldwell is in charge of that part of the dealership.
Tee is very helpful and a good guy to deal with! 

+1 on dealing with Tee as I have in the past. He really try’s to help those in need with issues with these 1400s and is very knowledgeable.

[blu guzz]

I had a 2015 Cali 1400 Custom.  At about the same mileage, it started intermittently throwing the urgent service warning.  It would also go into "limp" mode and drivability was impaired.  It turned out to be that when it was designed, there was a connector that was just a little short.  As the bars were turned back and forth over time, it would pull that plug just loose enough to give the code, but not so loose as to stop the engine.  You may ask them about this.  The fix was a replacement connector, never did it again.

[ediehl]

Here's a video of the issue; the Eldo is in neutral and my hands are off the grips https://youtu.be/Ur2lELQg4No

[ediehl]

I was thinking I'd remove the fuel tank to have a look at electrical connectors, to see if any are not properly connected. but from searching on "removing the MG 1400 fuel tank", it looks like might be a nightmare, with strong potential for cosmetic damage to the badges on the tank or the valve covers. Is this true?

[Kev m]

The ghost of Pete Roper would like to remind everyone that the Demand Sensor was problematic around this vintage. Be that is all.

[Ncdan]

Not to sound like a know-all but I have right much experience on the subject of URGENT SERVICE and RED WARNING TRIANGLE with these 1400s, as I replaced my TPS sensor twice on my 2015 1400 tourer.
The only reasonable answer that I can see is what I ended up doing with mine.
Plug in the computer, either you or someone else who knows how this is accomplished, and run a Diagnostics test through Guzzidag and see what code, if any is thrown.
In my case, both times the code came back indicating the TPS sensor was bad and in both cases it was exactly that.
The sensor is around 500 bucks but one can find used ones for much less. As far as I can figure and analyze the situation with the TPS is it either works or it don’t. Therefore a used one is just as credible as a new out of the box unit.
There are guys here that can offer you much more information and knowledge about the subject than I can but after fighting this battle twice with mind I just submitted and cried uncle and sold the thing as i was convicted it was possessed 👿😈

[bodine99]

Thanks, I'll look into that rally!

The weekend of Aug.21-23 there is also a Guzzi & Brit bike get together at TWO in Suches GA.

[ediehl]

I did a GuzziDiag mapping on a Griso a few years ago---is it the same setup with the 1400?

Not to sound like a know-all but I have right much experience on the subject of URGENT SERVICE and RED WARNING TRIANGLE with these 1400s, as I replaced my TPS sensor twice on my 2015 1400 tourer.
The only reasonable answer that I can see is what I ended up doing with mine.
Plug in the computer, either you or someone else who knows how this is accomplished, and run a Diagnostics test through Guzzidag and see what code, if any is thrown.
In my case, both times the code came back indicating the TPS sensor was bad and in both cases it was exactly that.
The sensor is around 500 bucks but one can find used ones for much less. As far as I can figure and analyze the situation with the TPS is it either works or it don’t. Therefore a used one is just as credible as a new out of the box unit.
There are guys here that can offer you much more information and knowledge about the subject than I can but after fighting this battle twice with mind I just submitted and cried uncle and sold the thing as i was convicted it was possessed 👿😈

[Ncdan]

I did a GuzziDiag mapping on a Griso a few years ago---is it the same setup with the 1400?

I just have to assume it is but we know what ASSUME means:) someone will chime in in that question soon I’m sure.

[ediehl]

Is your statement  a private joke, or is there really such a thing as a "demand sensor"?

The ghost of Pete Roper would like to remind everyone that the Demand Sensor was problematic around this vintage. Be that is all.

[kballowe]

Is your statement  a private joke, or is there really such a thing as a "demand sensor"?

It IS a private joke and there IS such a thing as a demand sensor, which is the same thing as a throttle position sensor (TPS)

[Ncdan]

Thanks Kev for handling that👍
Just another term for Throttle Position Sensor.
Sorry for the confusion.

[Kev m]

EDIT - I misread the other Kev's post lol. That's good.... now back to work.

Is your statement  a private joke, or is there really such a thing as a "demand sensor"?

Yes, like many things in the Guzzi and greater Italian motorcycle world there are many things they call by their own names. The Demand Sensor is normally called a Throttle Position Sensor by most other manufacturers. I can kinda see from where it came with Speed/Density EFI systems so heavily relying on throttle position to help determine THE DEMAND FOR FUEL.

Of course the fact that it's a throttle by wire system sorta changes the function of the sensor a little bit. I mean in the case of throttle by cable it's the rider that physically opens and closes the throttle, therefore they determine the position and the sensor simply reports it to the ECM so the ECM can determine the amount of fuel needed (along with data from the MAP, IAT, ECT, etc.).

Anyway in a throttle-by-wire system the ECM sets the throttle position in response to the rider input (a switch on the throttle grip). So  the TPS still reports feedback to the ECM about actual location but ironically it's the ECM that's also setting the position.

Enough of the tangent.

I haven't looked too deep at the Cali's only because I don't have one and don't service one for anyone else currently.

But you will find references to the DEMAND sensor in the OEM manual along with at a couple of references also to throttle position sensor (1 and 2) or Throttle position 1 potentiometer sensor 2 or Throttle valve sensor potentiometer 2.

https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/California%201400.pdf

But really all I was doing was passing along a message from a man with much MUCH more Guzzi experience than me who suggested the Demand Sensor (I.E. TPS) might be the culprit.

[ediehl]

Thanks much! I'm going to try hooking up GuzziDiag this afternoon to see if I see any error codes, and tomorrow I'll probably pull the fuel tank and look for any loose or damaged electrical connectors that could feasibly be causing a problem.

I don't know why I f'n still try to help people with technical questions - it seems half the time someone has to give me shit for trying to help.



Yes, like many things in the Guzzi and greater Italian motorcycle world there are many things they call by their own names. The Demand Sensor is normally called a Throttle Position Sensor by most other manufacturers. I can kinda see from where it came with Speed/Density EFI systems so heavily relying on throttle position to help determine THE DEMAND FOR FUEL.

Of course the fact that it's a throttle by wire system sorta changes the function of the sensor a little bit. I mean in the case of throttle by cable it's the rider that physically opens and closes the throttle, therefore they determine the position and the sensor simply reports it to the ECM so the ECM can determine the amount of fuel needed (along with data from the MAP, IAT, ECT, etc.).

Anyway in a throttle-by-wire system the ECM sets the throttle position in response to the rider input (a switch on the throttle grip). So  the TPS still reports feedback to the ECM about actual location but ironically it's the ECM that's also setting the position.

Enough of the tangent.

I haven't looked too deep at the Cali's only because I don't have one and don't service one for anyone else currently.

But you will find references to the DEMAND sensor in the OEM manual along with at a couple of references also to throttle position sensor (1 and 2) or Throttle position 1 potentiometer sensor 2 or Throttle valve sensor potentiometer 2.

https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/California%201400.pdf

But really all I was doing was passing along a message from a man with much MUCH more Guzzi experience than me who suggested the Demand Sensor (I.E. TPS) might be the culprit.

[Kev m]

Thanks much! I'm going to try hooking up GuzziDiag this afternoon to see if I see any error codes, and tomorrow I'll probably pull the fuel tank and look for any loose or damaged electrical connectors that could feasibly be causing a problem.

 

[ediehl]

GuzziDiag showed codes P0155 and P0156. That sounds like TPS, and maybe the exhaust O2 sensor? I'll still probably pull the tank off and look for loose/bad electrical connections. The closest dealer is 100+ miles away.

[Ncdan]

GuzziDiag showed codes P0155 and P0156. That sounds like TPS, and maybe the exhaust O2 sensor? I'll still probably pull the tank off and look for loose/bad electrical connections. The closest dealer is 100+ miles away.

Yep, Likely the TPS. If you will PM me I’ll give you a lead to a business in Canada that may have a used sensor priced reasonable.

[ediehl]

Thanks, but I'm still supposedly under warranty, so if my fiddling doesn't sort things out, I'll probably trailer the beast the 100+ miles to the shop, to leave it for who knows how long and then trailer back some time later to pick it up. I'll keep your offer in mind, tho. Thanks again.

Yep, Likely the TPS. If you will PM me I’ll give you a lead to a business in Canada that may have a used sensor priced reasonable.

[Ncdan]

Thanks, but I'm still supposedly under warranty, so if my fiddling doesn't sort things out, I'll probably trailer the beast the 100+ miles to the shop, to leave it for who knows how long and then trailer back some time later to pick it up. I'll keep your offer in mind, tho. Thanks again.

Good luck Sir, I hope it doesn’t turn into a nightmare, like mine would have if it had not been for a couple of the great guys on this forum who stuck by my side throughout the ordeal 👍

[Kiwi Dave]

GuzziDiag showed codes P0155 and P0156. That sounds like TPS, and maybe the exhaust O2 sensor? I'll still probably pull the tank off and look for loose/bad electrical connections. The closest dealer is 100+ miles away.

P0155   -Throttle Grip Position Redundancy tracks C-D inconsistent signal

P0156   -Throttle Grip Position Consistency -inconsistent signal

Does sound like a flaky throttle position sensor.  I remember there was a run of faulty TPS units a few years back.  Replacement is the only cure, and probably a visit to a dealer to file a warranty claim for you.

[ediehl]

I pulled the tank off today (not too bad, but very glad it was mostly empty when I was trying to jiggle it back on over those rubber bumpers). No problem whatsoever with the quick-disconnect fuel line, but I'd have gone nuts if I hadn't read up on that previously (and experienced it on other Guzzis). I immediately spotted what someone (I think from this forum) had posted elsewhere about a similar issue. There are 2 elbow sleeves that route the throttle cables into---what, a ride by wire device?---under the tank, and it was obvious that one of those sleeves had come loose. There are lock nuts above and below the mounting bracket for both sleeves, and the lower nut was about to fall off one sleeve entirely. That sleeve could essentially flop around as it would. I set it so that the loose sleeve was positioned at the same height as the non-loose sleeve, and tightened the lock nuts down (snugged the other sleeve up a bit also).

Then I ran GuzziDiag, and did the HandleSelfLearning/Close GuzziDiag/Reopen GuzziDiag/ThrottleSelfLearning routine, buttoned her all up and went for a 20 or so mile test ride.

No issues! Too soon to be certain that it's a sure fix, since it was a somewhat (but increasingly regular) issue, but I did note that the idle speed now seems to always be regular, just a bit above 1000 RPM, whereas before my ministrations the idle tended to wander around, mostly too fast even when I wasn't seeing the URGENT SERVICE warning. Fingers crossed, and thanks for all the help!

[Ncdan]

I also tried these possible fix’s however mine came back after ever fix I attempted. Bottom line on mine both times it was the TPS Working intermittently and every time it would throw the dreaded P155 code. That was mine though and I’m sure it was possessed 👿

[ediehl]

I hope I'm not following in your unfortunate footsteps!

I also tried these possible fix’s also however mine came back after ever fix I attempted. Bottom line on mine both times it was the TPS Working intermittently and every time it would through the dreaded P155 code. That was mine though and I’m sure it was possessed 👿