Instruments Out?

[ediehl]

I started my Stelvio NTX for the first time in a few weeks today. It's been on a battery tender and started right up, but then it abruptly shut down. I think that happened when I raised the sidestand, but am not certain of that. Now when I turn the key on I can hear the fuel pump charging, but there's no sign of life on the dash, other than a flashing triangle at the right-top of the instruments (which continues even with the key off). I haven't checked anything yet---battery, fuses---is this a known issue?

[Ncdan]

I started my Stelvio NTX for the first time in a few weeks today. It's been on a battery tender and started right up, but then it abruptly shut down. I think that happened when I raised the sidestand, but am not certain of that. Now when I turn the key on I can hear the fuel pump charging, but there's no sign of life on the dash, other than a flashing triangle at the right-top of the instruments (which continues even with the key off). I haven't checked anything yet---battery, fuses---is this a known issue?

I feel your pain and unfortunately I can’t offer much assistance other than encouragement as I’ve been there with the warning flashing triangle. I would say that’s directly related to the shutdown. There are guys here that can help I’m sure and will probably speak up later. Good luck👍

[ediehl]

Thx for encouragement

[Tkelly]

Check the battery connections and the mechanical side stand switch.

[Guzzidad]

   My guess is the connector to the neutral switch has come loose. Happened on my Norge once.

[ediehl]

Thx, that was kinda what I was thinking---one of the idiot switches. I'll look into those switches tomorrow, and just for the heck of it try a new battery that I happen to have on hand. I don't think the battery is the problem, because earlier today it fired right up with no hesitation, before it abruptly shut down, and the tender shows full charge. I'm just hoping it's not a big $$ and hard to diagnose issue like the ECU or instrument cluster.

[ediehl]

Where exactly is the neutral switch?

[Guzzidad]

    It's on the rear of the transmission, top side, right side.

[moto]

Be sure to report what the problem was when you find it.

I would be surprised if a simple sensor failure could cause a blank dash.

Some (including me) have found that disconnecting the battery overnight can restore operation. (A residual capacitance was suggested.)

It could be moisture, and the problem could go away when the moisture does. It could also be a loose or corroded ground, but maybe not one that is shared with that warning triangle lamp. A look at the wiring diagram might help decide that possibility.

Your dash is a variant of the Griso's, which has had some problems. Try simple things before concluding the worst. Report what you try.

Moto

[tris]

...
I would be surprised if a simple sensor failure could cause a blank dash.
...

Don't be surprised!

Water in the speed sensor on my B11 killed the bike stone cold dead, and it took me 2 months to work out what the heck was going on and fix it

[Wayne Orwig]

Neutral switch, or sidestand switch, wouldn't blank the dash.

[ediehl]

Neutral switch, or sidestand switch, wouldn't blank the dash.

That was my thought, but I guess I'll look at them anyway. I'm leaving the battery disconnected for a while. The two 20/30 amp fuses beside the battery look OK, but I'll try replacing them anyway. I also intend to find the fuse box and look at those, and just look for any iffy electrical connections.

[ediehl]

OK, I disconnected the battery for a while, and reconnected. No change. I installed a new fully-charged AGM battery, no change. I then realized that the GuzziDiag setup I had used on my Griso and Eldorado should work on the Stelvio! So I hooked it up. No faults were registered. The "Sidestand" indicator would switch from "in" to "out" when I moved the sidestand. Likewise the clutch would move from "released" to "pulled", the killswitch would cycle from "inactive" to "active" as I switched it, and  the gear would switch from "neutral" to "shifted" as I fiddled the shift lever. So I have to assume that all those switches are functional, right? The status also reported "Tipp Over Inactive", which, aside from the spelling, sounds good to me. Then there was the one Status message "Start Impossible". That's not such a helpful or optimistic bit of info, eh?

[moto]

OK, I disconnected the battery for a while, and reconnected. No change. I installed a new fully-charged AGM battery, no change. I then realized that the GuzziDiag setup I had used on my Griso and Eldorado should work on the Stelvio! So I hooked it up. No faults were registered. The "Sidestand" indicator would switch from "in" to "out" when I moved the sidestand. Likewise the clutch would move from "released" to "pulled", the killswitch would cycle from "inactive" to "active" as I switched it, and  the gear would switch from "neutral" to "shifted" as I fiddled the shift lever. So I have to assume that all those switches are functional, right? The status also reported "Tipp Over Inactive", which, aside from the spelling, sounds good to me. Then there was the one Status message "Start Impossible". That's not such a helpful or optimistic bit of info, eh?

I agree with your conclusions about the switches, based on the GuzziDiag results. No faults may just mean no ECU faults (but I don't know for sure). The "Start impossible" message probably means that the ECU is not receiving the go-ahead-for-starting message from the dash. That message should be sent over the canbus connection in digital form. If the dash isn't working the message won't be sent. So, this could just be an indicator that the dash is not working, according to the observation made by the ECU. The message makes it clear that the whole logic inside the dash is not working, as opposed to a failed LCD display, for example.

A loose connector at the dash is possible but unlikely given its modern construction. I don't recall if there is a separate ground for the dash, outside of the connector, that you could check. I'll check.* Moisture in the dash is still possible, and it is possible you could get results by drying out the dash. Moisture that condenses on the dash's printed circuit board (PCB) can have temporary or permanent effects.**

Moto

* I checked the wiring diagram:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/wiring_diagram_stelvio_1200_8v_ntx.pdf

No ground connections bypass the two connectors to the dash (11).  In previous models, pins 16 and 20 of the left (gray) connector were shown connected directly to ground after passing through the connector, but now the ground goes through (7), the "right light switch." It doesn't make a difference here: the ground is through that connector, at least according to all diagrams of this and related dashes.

In the Griso and Breva pre-ABS applications, +12V came from the key switch into pin 1 of the gray connector on the dash. But now the connections seem to go through the ABS and I am not sure when you should expect to see +12V there.

I am running out of cheap suggestions.

M.

** See here for my previous research on this: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84968.0

[ediehl]

Well, I'm extremely pleased, and a bit embarrassed, to say that the issue is resolved. From the pic in the
service manual, I thought the fuse block was under the right-side fairing. So as I disassembled things, I separated every electrical connection and sprayed it with contact cleaner, and on and on. No fuse block under the right fairing, so on to the left fairing, and more contact cleaning. And then, hallelujah, I spotted the main fuse block, by the steering head (in rather plain sight, if you're looking there). The fuse 2nd from the front was blown. Replaced it, and voila! All is well

[moto]

Well, I'm extremely pleased, and a bit embarrassed, to say that the issue is resolved. From the pic in the
service manual, I thought the fuse block was under the right-side fairing. So as I disassembled things, I separated every electrical connection and sprayed it with contact cleaner, and on and on. No fuse block under the right fairing, so on to the left fairing, and more contact cleaning. And then, hallelujah, I spotted the main fuse block, by the steering head (in rather plain sight, if you're looking there). The fuse 2nd from the front was blown. Replaced it, and voila! All is well

Great! Now we can collectively try to remember that the symptom of that fuse blowing is the blank dash display and the refusal to start!

Wish I had been able to suggest that.

Moto

[Ncdan]

I have an 02 Stone and I guess this could happen to me as well. So the fuse is behind the side cover?
And do you have any idea what could have caused the fuse to blow in the first place?

[blackcat]

I don't own a Stelvio but from my casual reading, doesn't that fuse blow because of the faulty wiring in fog lights?

[ediehl]

I have been wondering why that fuse blew. I do have fog lights, which are on all the time---never had any issues with them (until---maybe---this fuse). I didn't test for that when I was messing with the fuses.

[blackcat]

I have been wondering why that fuse blew. I do have fog lights, which are on all the time---never had any issues with them (until---maybe---this fuse). I didn't test for that when I was messing with the fuses.

Well, known problem on this bike. I'd search this site for the cure.

[ediehl]

I don't own a Stelvio but from my casual reading, doesn't that fuse blow because of the faulty wiring in fog lights?

On the Stelvio the fuse block is out in the open, between the steering head and front fairing, behind the headlights. It has a little rubber cover. It's not physically as large as I was expecting.

[Zoom Zoom]

If you have the factory aux lights, pull back the rubber on the back and check the wire lead attached to the bulb for chafing. I had this occur during a long trip. Once I figured out the trouble, I left the lights off for the remainder of my trip. After returning home, I added extra insulation the the wire lead on the bulbs and have never had any trouble since. Many have added a fuse on each feed wire and that is a good solution. Since adding the insulation to mine, and that was 2012, I have never had an issue. So, I haven't bothered adding fuses to mine.

edit: On my '09 the 30 amp fuse that blew is located under the front seat. The main fuse block is still where you described.

That wire rubs against the metal housing and shorts out.

3M makes a fiberglass tape, which is what I used for my application. I even bought a couple spare bulbs and added the insulation to the spares. They have never been needed. I keep them in a baggie under the seat.

John Henry

[ediehl]

If you have the factory aux lights, pull back the rubber on the back and check the wore lead attached to the bulb for chafing. I had this occur during a long trip. Once I figured out the trouble, I left the lights off for the remainder of my trip. After returning home, I added extra insulation the the wire lead on the bulbs and have never had any trouble since. Many have added a fuse on each feed wire and that is a good solution. Since adding the insulation to mine, and that was 2012, I have never had an issue. So, I haven't bothered adding fuses to mine.

That wire rubs against the metal housing and shorts out.

3M makes a fiberglass tape, which is what I used for my application. I even bought a couple spare bulbs and added the insulation to the spares. They have never been needed. I keep them in a baggie under the seat.

John Henry

Thanks much! I will do that very thing this weekend. I'll also carry a couple spare fuses

[Kiwi_Roy]

The flashing triangle is normal, its supposed to scare away a would be thief.
Glad you got it resolved, I agree with others its probably a short in the fog lights, a well known problem.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif
Is it fuse 28 that blows, you can see that there's a whole bunch of different circuits on that. the fog lights definitely should have a small fuse local to the relay or each lamp.
There is no reason a short in the fog light should take out the dash and the headlight, thats dangerous and silly.