Ignition but no lift off...

[frozengoose]

So I was cleaning out the garage yesterday, it's never done cause I start a new project before I'm finished, and I find a tool roll. Must be for the Guzzi, there was one with the bike when I bought it, but set it aside for some reason. Well I'll just put'er in there now, so tried to take the key out of the ignition to unlock the side cover. But it was stuck. Wiggled it around a bit and it popped out, didn't think much about it cause the key hadn't been out since last fall when I went to the Airheads mtg. So after putting the tool roll away, went to put the key back but it wouldn't go into the ignition. After fiddling for a bit, got a small screwdriver and flashlight to see if something had gotten stuck in there. It looks like about half way down the key hole, something shiny, part of the locking mechanism maybe has moved over and is partially blocking it so the key only goes in part way now and doesn't turn. And while I was fiddling around, moving the forks back and forth to see if that'd help, the fork lock engaged. So not only won't it start, the forks are locked to one side, so can't even roll it around easily.
So that's the story, anybody had this problem before? Is the only solution replacing the lock mechanism? Both MG and Harpers no longer list that part and it looks like you have to do some finagling to adapt a later mechanism. Any positive suggestions would be appreciated. It's a 1975 850T, stock ignition as far as I know.
Thanks, Jon

[theoneandonlymin]

I'd give it a wee spray with your favourite lubricant. Some may say graphite based. Work the key in and out.
Steering lock is separate and requires a different key. I'm sure you know that.
Cheers
Min

[80CX100]

Sounds like a pin in the cylinder has stuck or jammed.

As said already grab your favorite lube, graphite powder, duroluble, silicon spray 3 in 1 oil etc, whatever you have give it a good shot, work it around with the key, perhaps coat the key and insert it working it around as best you can.

If that doesn't loosen up that pin, try to loosen it and move it back and forth with a dental pick or similar tool. Be gentle doing it, because if the pin just gets stuck and jammed into a bad position, I think that can introduce other problems.

fwiw good luck

Kelly

[frozengoose]

Sounds like a pin in the cylinder has stuck or jammed.

As said already grab your favorite lube, graphite powder, duroluble, silicon spray 3 in 1 oil etc, whatever you have give it a good shot, work it around with the key, perhaps coat the key and insert it working it around as best you can.

If that doesn't loosen up that pin, try to loosen it and move it back and forth with a dental pick or similar tool. Be gentle doing it, because if the pin just gets stuck and jammed into a bad position, I think that can introduce other problems.

fwiw good luck

Kelly

 Thanks Kelly, but tried all that with a tiny screwdriver and silicon spray. Doesn't seem to want to move.

[80CX100]

Thanks Kelly, but tried all that with a tiny screwdriver and silicon spray. Doesn't seem to want to move.

     If you've attacked the pin from the side and it won't move back into position, it may have come out and it's now jammed below or above it's hole.

     2 small dental pick tools, one with a 90 degree end to work under or on top of the pin and lift/push it straight and try to line it up with it's hole and then work the 2nd tool sideways at the same time.

     I've only worked on on the ignition switch on my CX100 and it was a pita with the dash etc,,, I'd much rather work from the top than pull the lock cylinder/ignition out the bottom.

     Your bike may be easier to get to if it's all in the open, if it comes to that.

     Good luck

     Kelly

[n3303j]

T uses same lock for ignition and steering (T3 uses different locks)?

[frozengoose]

Steering lock is separate and requires a different key. I'm sure you know that.
Cheers
Min

T uses same lock for ignition and steering (T3 uses different locks)?

Pretty sure that's the case, just the one key as far as I can tell.

     If you've attacked the pin from the side and it won't move back into position, it may have come out and it's now jammed below or above it's hole.

     2 small dental pick tools, one with a 90 degree end to work under or on top of the pin and lift/push it straight and try to line it up with it's hole and then work the 2nd tool sideways at the same time.

     I've only worked on on the ignition switch on my CX100 and it was a pita with the dash etc,,, I'd much rather work from the top than pull the lock cylinder/ignition out the bottom.

     Your bike may be easier to get to if it's all in the open, if it comes to that.

     Good luck

     Kelly

Soaked'er good with TriFlow and WD40, so we'll see what happens after a bit. Feels like it's stuck solid tho.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Early 850-Ts used the same switch with built-in lock as the V7 Sport. That steering lock is a wreck waiting to happen IMO, replace it and the attached switch while you have the chance.

Use this switch:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=761
and this housing:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=762
in place of the original.

Greg Bender sells this harness that is "plug and play":
http://thisoldtractor.com/for_sale/wiring_subharness_tonti_17735300_new_switch_1.jpg

[frozengoose]

Thanks Charley, it's definitely an early T, built Oct.'74, no oil filter either. At least it happened in the garage and not somewhere where it'd have to be hauled home. I'll check that stuff out.

[frozengoose]

Early 850-Ts used the same switch with built-in lock as the V7 Sport. That steering lock is a wreck waiting to happen IMO, replace it and the attached switch while you have the chance.

Use this switch:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=761
and this housing:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=762
in place of the original.

Greg Bender sells this harness that is "plug and play":
http://thisoldtractor.com/for_sale/wiring_subharness_tonti_17735300_new_switch_1.jpg

So after fiddling with it some more, finally took Charlies advice and ordered the parts. Greg Bender's great, sent the harness right away, before I even paid! It took a while to get here, it's Alaska and the postal service is apparently being improved, so that means it takes longer. Anyway, when everything got here, started taking stuff apart. The usual problems, hard to reach bolts due to the forks being locked, then pulled a wire loose that had to fixed, but finally got ready to instal the new switch and this is what I saw.




Apparently the plate that functions as part of the fork lock goes half way into the new ignition switch housing,
the old housing has a cut out to clear it.




So it looks like there's maybe three options.
1. Remove the locking plate, but it looks like you'd have to remove the forks to get to it.
2. Cut a notch in the new housing, but that might seriously weaken it since it looks like it'd be at least half way.
3. Cut off enough of the locking plate to clear the new housing.
Right now I'm looking for the Sawzall, deciding what to cut. Any suggestions?

[Tom]

Open up the old switch and take a look.

[frozengoose]

Open up the old switch and take a look.

Yeah I tried to get the old one out of the housing, but no luck. Maybe it just needs more encouragement?

[Tom]

Yeah.  I found in the ignition switch for my '80 Convert, a very thin coating.  The best I could figure was that the increased resistance to the internals possibly melted the bakelite plastic.  The contacts had some melted plastic on them.  I carefully scraped the contacts with a pen knife and flushing it out afterwards with spray carb cleaner.  The switch was okay after that.  The Convert however has a different type of ignition switch.

[frozengoose]

Yeah.  I found in the ignition switch for my '80 Convert, a very thin coating.  The best I could figure was that the increased resistance to the internals possibly melted the bakelite plastic.  The contacts had some melted plastic on them.  I carefully scraped the contacts with a pen knife and flushing it out afterwards with spray carb cleaner.  The switch was okay after that.  The Convert however has a different type of ignition switch.

Pretty sure Charlie said you have to use the new switch with a new housing, but will try to get the old one apart and see if I can finagle something. It's not really looking like an easy replacement now, but that's life with an older MG I guess.

[moto-uno]

  Look on the bright side , it'd be a real bitch to try and steal :) .  Peter

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

So after fiddling with it some more, finally took Charlies advice and ordered the parts. Greg Bender's great, sent the harness right away, before I even paid! It took a while to get here, it's Alaska and the postal service is apparently being improved, so that means it takes longer. Anyway, when everything got here, started taking stuff apart. The usual problems, hard to reach bolts due to the forks being locked, then pulled a wire loose that had to fixed, but finally got ready to instal the new switch and this is what I saw.




Apparently the plate that functions as part of the fork lock goes half way into the new ignition switch housing,
the old housing has a cut out to clear it.




So it looks like there's maybe three options.
1. Remove the locking plate, but it looks like you'd have to remove the forks to get to it.
2. Cut a notch in the new housing, but that might seriously weaken it since it looks like it'd be at least half way.
3. Cut off enough of the locking plate to clear the new housing.
Right now I'm looking for the Sawzall, deciding what to cut. Any suggestions?

Remove the top triple clamp, the nut and the "locking plate" - it serves no purpose with the new switch. 

[Sasquatch Jim]

Use the bigga hamma technique.  Then get a new switch.

[frozengoose]

Well got'er done, the new switch's installed and power comes on, will take'er for test ride tomorrow but don't see any problems. The Greg Bender sub harness made it a lot easier to wire. Thanks to all who responded esp. Charlie, Tom, and Kelly who followed up with useful tips.




As for removing the old locking plate, went with option 3, the super sawzall saved the day again!