V7 Sport E-bay -

[Turin]

I don't get why you'd re-stamp like that.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Moto-Guzzi/203104111787?hash=item2f49f2ccab:g:zUIAAOSwIKlfXQXz

[Dave Swanson]

I don't get why you'd re-stamp like that.

Pure butchery! 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Replaced the engine (case) and wanted the numbers to still match?

[dxhall]

Some of the auto theft investigators I worked with years ago seized a stolen Harley.  The ID numbers for the motor on those bikes were stamped inside the primary case.  When the cops pulled the case off to check the number, they saw that the thief had ground off the factory numbers and stamped “f—- you” on the boss.

Can’t say that guy was trying to mislead anyone.

[Dave Swanson]

Can’t say that guy was trying to mislead anyone.

Agree, he does provide a clear picture of an obvious amateur numbers job, but no explanation is provided. 

[dxhall]

I’m not aware of any state which allows alteration of ID numbers.  If the bike in the photo was inspected by a cop here, it would be seized.

The numbers are more important on cars than bikes.  That’s because a ‘60s muscle car with matching motor and VIN is worth much more than an otherwise identical car with non matching numbers.  Back when I was working with the cops on such things, it was not uncommon for us to find things like fake Shelby mustangs with restamped motor numbers.

[Dave Swanson]

Since 1970 in the USA, the title follows the frame, therefore engines can be swapped out at will as long as the engine numbers are not defaced/altered.  For a bike that will just be a rider this presents no issues.  BUT for a collectable bike (or car) pedigree is everything, and this V7 Sport fails in that department. 

[cliffrod]

Partial VINs on Ford engines and sometimes transmissions began in model year 1968, but it's often inconsistent.   Legal or illegal- My understanding on restamping case numbers on bikes is that it can be grounds for problem if an official decides it does not look OEM, but they have to be familar enough with "correct" to notice differences.  Easy enough on common stuff, not always on odd Marques.   Usually the frame number is the priority.  any restamping is supposed to be done by the DMV.  Then it is usually guaranteed to look like crap.

VINs on bike engine & frames were supposed to match in later years, but not always so.  My 1974 450 Mark 3 Ducati was sold new here in town and I purchased with original owner A Title in 91.  It was matching numbers on original frame decal and engine, approx 2300 original miles and parked since 1975 iirc.  We are very close with Bill Epley the original dealer (who also originally sold my V7 Sport and several other bikes I've owned), so know there was no question about provenance.  Over a decade after I got it, one morning the late style frame decal was lying on the floor next to the bike.  Completely different original stamped number on frame from Ducati vs all records from new.  Never verified if this is typical with other later Ducati street-only singles because there few bikes to compare.  Didn't find this issue with numerous Jupiter/Scramblers or Motortrans bikes I had.

One shop owner here in town was pinched in Daytona in the 80's during a crackdown on stolen/questionable bikes & bikers.  Police noticed his parked Panhead had an engine case with numbers that didn't match frame number.  Moon had no additional papers proving legal ownership of that case, just valid registration for frame vin. It was legal, just fixed with spare parts to replace a bad case half.  Police told him they would seize the entire bike as is or allow him to strip bike where parked and surrender the single case half with number not matching valid registration and bring the rest of the bike home.  He pulled it apart and brought the bike home in pieces.  It made quite an impression.

[Turin]

Does anyone else see the Faint original VE underneath the hackery ? If that is what it reads, then that would be a lemans engine which could be a selling point for a daily driver.  I hope they didn't fill the frame numbers with powder coat, if that is how they colored the frame in green.

[RinkRat II]

    It looked like VF to me ,but either way it would still be a Le Mans I,II or III and as you say, a selling point not an amateur cover stamp job.

     Paul B 

[JJ]

Let me just say for $18,000 "large"...it had better be 100% original...100% verified...100% well documented...etc., etc.      Otherwise...one HUGE crap shoot!!

[QuattroValvole]

Police noticed his parked Panhead had an engine case with numbers that didn't match frame number. 

.

Panheads never had frame numbers.

[Dave Swanson]

.

Panheads never had frame numbers.

Correct, the only numbers on HD frames up to and including 1969 were a 2 character date of manufacturer code.  1 digit signifying the year, and one letter for the month. 

[cliffrod]

I'll talk to Moon and correct my details.  He surrendered an engine case to keep his bike.