NGC Where do all the Harleys come from?

[twowheeladdict]

I bought one in Kiwi Land straight after we came out of - lockdown.  They were offered for NZ$19,999 which is 15% off the original price.  I took it for a demo ride, and signed up immediately upon return.

The original fuel mapping was not the best, I put a Fuel Moto map in mine, improved it considerably.  Got rid of the low license plate and rear indicator bracket, it would attach my shins every time I walked past.  Perhaps it was just saying "let's ride"?

I liked it so much, I bought an Indian Chief.  Different motor all together, nice lazy riding.

The new ones have 17" and 18" (rear-front) wheels, mine came with 19" front and rear.  Makes it rather tall, but probably no more than my Moto Guzzi V85TT.

I wanted a Springfield but could never come to an agreed to price on one.  I will say that I had just test ridden the Livewire the day before so anything short of a liter super sport would have been disappointing.  LOL! 

I hope one day before I stop riding I can get to NZ and tour the entire country.  I was supposed to go Christmas 2020.  Maybe in a couple years travel will get back to normal and my son's house will hopefully be complete by then. 

[Motormike]

I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.

[twowheeladdict]

I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.

I wonder if moving their 2021 reveal and supply to January had some affect on that in addition to the -.  If a large percentage of you buyers are isolating it makes it hard to sell bikes. 

[lucky phil]

I wonder if moving their 2021 reveal and supply to January had some affect on that in addition to the -.  If a large percentage of you buyers are isolating it makes it hard to sell bikes.

Worth a re run I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine

Ciao

[Ncdan]

I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.

Mike, have you seen any of the other brands stats for the same time period, I wonder if all the market is down across the board?

[Motormike]

Boat sales up, RV sales up.  The Honda dealer near me is completely sold out of dirt bikes and 4 wheelers.  So people are spending money, and lots of it.

[LowRyter]

Worth a re run I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine

Ciao

I like the fort9 kid.  He convinced me to use gear old in the drive chains for my non Guzzis.

Makes me wonder why the never made a Cafe version of the XR before they killed it.  Some pegs and a bikini fairing and done.  Sell another 1000 and then kill it.

[Kev m]

Boat sales up, RV sales up.  The Honda dealer near me is completely sold out of dirt bikes and 4 wheelers.  So people are spending money, and lots of it.

Actually your conclusion may be making some bad assumptions.

This article suggests 2-wheel industry is down, 4-wheel sales are up.

https://www.motorcyclesdata.com/2020/12/30/united-states-motorcycles-market/


Other articles:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billroberson/2020/10/07/the-motorcycle-industry-was-at-a-crossroads-then-coivd-19-changed-up-the-map/


https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/motorbike-sales-figures/

[Motormike]

Off road sales are up for 2020 across the board. Street bikes have not faired as well, especially the Japanese brands.  On the other hand, BMW did pretty well.  Down only 2%. Not bad considering.  https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210105005995/en/BMW-of-North-America-Reports-Q4-2020-and-Full-Year-2020-U.S.-Sales-Results.

[Canuck750]

A local multi brand dealership (Yamaha, Suzuki, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Vespa) told me that big displacement bike sales were down across the board, cruiser sales have been dead for years, smaller displacement street bikes do well, sold out of the Tenere 700, Guzzi V7 variants steady but small volume. A local Honda / KTM dealer told me pretty much the same, street bikes under 500cc sell, Honda Africa twins and Goldwings do OK but not in volume. Local BMW dealership sells a lot of RT's and GS's, a handful of the K1600 range but sales guy told me these are 'old guys' bikes (well I am an old guy and I have a K bike so I guess I fit the demographic). Looks like the future may be light and reasonably cheap sub 500cc street bikes.

[Kev m]

Off road sales are up for 2020 across the board. Street bikes have not faired as well, especially the Japanese brands.  On the other hand, BMW did pretty well.  Down only 2%. Not bad considering.  https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210105005995/en/BMW-of-North-America-Reports-Q4-2020-and-Full-Year-2020-U.S.-Sales-Results.

Gueas in saying that boats and RVs and four wheelers are not motorcycles.


Edit - though I'll add with smaller bike sales seemingly trending stronger than larger, it would seem Harley once again may be choosing the exact wrong thing by dropping their smallest bikes and scaling back on the Sportsters.

[twowheeladdict]

Worth a re run I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine

Ciao

Fortnine has been bought by Indian.  They gave him an FTR.  He even did a video on how it is the "most beautiful" bike ever made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_JXsWNDTQ

There are many of us who don't care about going liquid cooled and high revving for more power.  I've been there, done that, and then saw the light.  None of my 4 motorcycles are about power.  They are about enjoying the ride and seeing the sights along the way.  They are about taking in the smells, enjoying the roadside stands and road food in out of the way places. 
When we rode sport bikes we didn't see anything but the next set of curves. 

[lucky phil]

Fortnine has been bought by Indian.  They gave him an FTR.  He even did a video on how it is the "most beautiful" bike ever made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_JXsWNDTQ

There are many of us who don't care about going liquid cooled and high revving for more power.  I've been there, done that, and then saw the light.  None of my 4 motorcycles are about power.  They are about enjoying the ride and seeing the sights along the way.  They are about taking in the smells, enjoying the roadside stands and road food in out of the way places. 
When we rode sport bikes we didn't see anything but the next set of curves.

Sorry but i cant see the connection your trying to make here. This was a Video on Harley as a company and the way its operated in a commercial sense not about which style of bike is better than the other. Personally I'm with you I don't want or need a Hyperbike anymore.

Ciao

[Canuck750]

Fortnine has been bought by Indian. 

 I googled this, don't see any link to an Indian / Polaris ownership?

On August 6, 2020, Novacap announced that it had acquired an interest in Montreal-based FortNine (fortnine.ca), a leading e-commerce platform for motorcycle, dirt bike, ATV, snowmobile and other powersports gear, accessories and parts.
Novacap is a leading Canadian private equity firm with $3.6 billion of assets under management.


Headquartered in Montreal, QC, FortNine was built from the ground up to cater to powersports enthusiasts and provide Canadian riders with the gear they need. FortNine has thrived disrupting the market via innovation to give the riders community an excellent customer experience through their knowledgeable and experienced team.

“We’re thrilled to partner with such great entrepreneurs. Amin and Karim Sawaf founded FortNine while in university. They led the company through exponential growth, built a great management team, and Novacap recognizes the success and passion that drives them. FortNine is the second investment from Novacap Industries V fund since its closing in November 2019,” said Jacques Foisy, Chairman of the Board and Managing Partner of Novacap.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Harley just posted a quarterly loss of 96 million. And they are starting a “Certified HD”  used bike program. Wonder how that will do since there are so many for sale on Craigslist? ... like I said at the beginning of this thread. They’re everywhere!

[Ncdan]

Harley just posted a quarterly loss of 96 million. And they are starting a “Certified HD”  used bike program. Wonder how that will do since there are so many for sale on Craigslist? ... like I said at the beginning of this thread. They’re everywhere!

I have noticed that there are a lot oh HD’s on Craigs list and Facebook market place. However the asking prices are that place where possible buyers must not be willing to go???

[twowheeladdict]

I googled this, don't see any link to an Indian / Polaris ownership?

On August 6, 2020, Novacap announced that it had acquired an interest in Montreal-based FortNine (fortnine.ca), a leading e-commerce platform for motorcycle, dirt bike, ATV, snowmobile and other powersports gear, accessories and parts.
Novacap is a leading Canadian private equity firm with $3.6 billion of assets under management.


Headquartered in Montreal, QC, FortNine was built from the ground up to cater to powersports enthusiasts and provide Canadian riders with the gear they need. FortNine has thrived disrupting the market via innovation to give the riders community an excellent customer experience through their knowledgeable and experienced team.

“We’re thrilled to partner with such great entrepreneurs. Amin and Karim Sawaf founded FortNine while in university. They led the company through exponential growth, built a great management team, and Novacap recognizes the success and passion that drives them. FortNine is the second investment from Novacap Industries V fund since its closing in November 2019,” said Jacques Foisy, Chairman of the Board and Managing Partner of Novacap.

I'm talking about Ryan!  LOL!

[Canuck750]

I'm talking about Ryan!  LOL!

 

he is one smart kid!

[lucky phil]

I'm talking about Ryan!  LOL!

Ryan works for Fortnine and in the Video you linked to he obviously thinks the Indian is beautiful and uses it as a demonstration of motorcycle design criteria and philosophies but Indian actually gave him a bike? I mean one to keep as his own? Do you know this for a fact or are you extending the video content into areas of supposition and conjecture.
Just interested to know as its important to have this kind of knowledge when watching reviews etc. I've know journalists for many years that have sponsorship deals with factories and so ignore their opinions on those bikes.

Ciao 

[Canuck750]

did Indian buy him a bike, perhaps but I kind of doubt it

From the web

His name is Ryan Kluftinger and he is a young chap from British Columbia who has a degree in physics and philosophy (an odd mix to be sure) - so he knows the science and he knows how to write, but in contrast to nearly every other moto-journalist, he has also taken the trouble to learn some engineering along the way. He is also a very highly skilled rider as you can see from some of his bike test videos.

Ryan's other Harley videos show that he also has a decent grip on corporate finance and the stock market - truly a renaissance man!

You can tell that he has a good education and takes the time to learn before he speaks because, for example he uses correct terminology and units of measure (he quotes engine torque in ft-lbs or N-m and not psi) and he doesn't talk too fast (c'mon down Revzilla!!) or clutter-up his videos with techno-jargon BS, as so many others do.

FYI, FortNine is a Canadian motorcycle accessories place with a major on-line parts and tires business based in Montreal. They engaged Ryan (known on-air as freelancer Ryan F9) to do product reviews and general interest pieces for them with the agreement that he will not pump products just to sell them. He only gives the products good reviews if the product is...you know...good. He also produces editorial pieces which can be pretty tough on some bike OEMs - but he backs up his views with actual data and facts - how refreshing!

[lucky phil]

did Indian buy him a bike, perhaps but I kind of doubt it

Thats kinda what I thought. He seems legit, which is nice in this day and age.

Ciao

[twowheeladdict]

Ryan works for Fortnine and in the Video you linked to he obviously thinks the Indian is beautiful and uses it as a demonstration of motorcycle design criteria and philosophies but Indian actually gave him a bike? I mean one to keep as his own? Do you know this for a fact or are you extending the video content into areas of supposition and conjecture.
Just interested to know as its important to have this kind of knowledge when watching reviews etc. I've know journalists for many years that have sponsorship deals with factories and so ignore their opinions on those bikes.

Ciao

Supposition and conjecture, based on his reviews of every other bike I've watched.   

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Harley’s in a very tough position. I can’t think of a way out of the position they’re in. When you’ve built your brand all on an aging image and large v twin engine that are BOTH falling out of favor with the next generation. Wow, it will be interesting to see what they do.  Hope they survive.

[twowheeladdict]

Harley’s in a very tough position. I can’t think of a way out of the position they’re in. When you’ve built your brand all on an aging image and large v twin engine that are BOTH falling out of favor with the next generation. Wow, it will be interesting to see what they do.  Hope they survive.

With the popularity of retro, classic, modern classic design in motorcycles today, you would think that Harley would be doing well.  In fact, I think they are still doing well in regards to making and selling motorcycles.  They are in one market while the majority of other motorcycle companies are in many markets or are owned by parent companies who are in many markets. 

I think that when they focused on the stock market is where they got in trouble.  The push to flood the market with motorcycles created a self fulfilling prophecy to where the value of used bikes dropped so much that many choose to buy used instead of new.  Only those who are knowledgeable about and appreciate the improvements made over the past decade are looking to buy new. 

I didn't come to Harley until 2016.  Prior to the Rushmore redesign I didn't see them as competitive with my other choices in heavy touring bikes.  I looked a Harley seriously in 2010 and chose the Vulcan Voyager over the Road Glide.  In 2016 I traded the Voyager with 60,000 miles on my first Road Glide because they finally made a bike I was willing to buy.