Paris Climate Agreement and Piaggio Motorcycles

[Shorty]

Re Electric bikes:  https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/paris-climate-agreement-and-piaggio-motorcycles/
  Universal battery agreement.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2021/03/yamaha-honda-ktm-and-piaggio-form-consortium-for-standarized-swappable-batteries/

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

This is cool, increased standardization on batteries is the best way to go with the current tech. Hope to see some electric aprilias soon!

[tommy2cyl]

The future is relentless.  The ecological planet friendly side of my brain tells me this is a good thing and encouraging to see rare co- operation between manufacturers for a common good.  The ICE DNA ingrained lifetime of motorsports screams the end of life as we know it is approaching.  I think the value of electric motorcycles and scooters in an urban and heavily populated dense areas is the way to go.  I also think electric dirt bikes that offer big torque and a quiet experience riding off road is also desirable.  What will be tough is differentiating your ride from anybody else when you all have the same electric battery power.  This will present a major challenge to manufacturers me thinks.  As we all know, it's about the motor and how it makes you feel.  We should all be thankful that we have lived in the Golden Era of ICE engines, both cars and motorcycles.  I am thankful I got to wake up to the sound of V10 & V12 F1 engines and experience the sound of a Britten screaming around the high banks at Daytona. 

[Perazzimx14]

 I wonder if this locks an entire group into a battery technology for much longer than would normally be the case. Kind of like all the manufacturers using the same ICE engine and building their bike around it?

[Seventy One]

I wonder if this locks an entire group into a battery technology for much longer than would normally be the case. Kind of like all the manufacturers using the same ICE engine and building their bike around it?

Probably. Standardization limits innovation.

[guzzista]

Battery sharing is all good and fine and co-operation between manufacturers is a step in the right direction.
 However, lot more work needs to be done in how electricity is produced. 
As long as conventional combustion type  electricity generation  figures remain as current, (61 % : Coal: 23%, Natural Gas: 38% US  ) E Vehicles  are  only a partial solution .
Seems that more manufactures are jumping on E cars and motorcycles  manufacture due to changing legislation and consumer popularity  thus creating more demand at the charging end. Will growth of renewable energy generation be able  match increase of demand ?
How this will affect overall emissions given additional generation /demand vs reduction of ICE propulsion remains to be seen

[bad Chad]

That's true, but you point to the answer in your own statement,
     "As long as conventional combustion type electricity generation figures remain as current,"

They wont.  Renewables are growing very quickly, and now make up close it not more than 20%,(most recent numbers I found were 2019 at 18%)

It is happening, the question is how fast it will take to become the dominant source of generation.

[LowRyter]

Good news for all those scooter riders in Euro metros.  Perhaps it will catch on here?

[Tusayan]

Renewables are growing very quickly, and now make up close it not more than 20% (most recent numbers I found were 2019 at 18%)

On the US grid, renewables are indeed about 18%, the biggest fraction of which is hydroelectric at 7%.  Wind and solar combined are under 10%.  https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

In order for electric cars to be predominant, not withstanding the practical issues of range and recharging time, the grid or local sources will have to increase total electricity production by something like 40%.  If that energy is to come from wind and solar those sources will therefore have to produce about five times what they do now, and with current energy storage limitations that increase will have to be backed up by new fossil fuel plants (or new nuclear plants) matching the 40% increase in the size of the grid.  Ideally new technology will allow those backup plants to start up quickly versus running inefficiently at idle in reserve mode while renewables are producing.  Locating wind and solar in areas with particularly reliable weather would help.

If all of the above were to be successful and electric transport were to become powered by a five-times increase in wind and solar production, most of the rest of the grid would still be powered by conventional fuels producing electricity at the same rate they do now.  Simultaneously replacing that with wind and solar would require (in total) something like 13 times higher wind and solar production, plus a 40% increase in fossil fuel plant capacity for backup.

[LowRyter]

Tusayan, given enough windmills, wind could power the grid and would be more scalable than any other source.  The wind is always blowing somewhere.  I'm not saying that it's practical but it's certainly possible.  We get about 30% of our power here in Okla from wind.  It didn't freeze up here during the last winter storm.  And we've just scratched the surface. 

Solar could be installed on houses and coupled with scalable wind.

The grid is going to have to be upgraded which should've been begun 10 years ago.  I agree in a practical sense, we'll need gas as well but at a lesser amount that we do now, likely significantly less.   Economics comes into play and it appears that wind is the cheapest source.  Renewables are expected to be cost equal to $10/barrel oil and are projected to grow by 50% in the next 5 years. 

Regarding electric vehicles, they are much more efficient and will consume much less energy than petroleum powered vehicles.  But agree, even with off hour recharging of EVs, the grid will need to upgrade so that we can benefit from scalability.

[twowheeladdict]

Good news for all those scooter riders in Euro metros.  Perhaps it will catch on here?

Except in another thread someone wrote that Paris outlawed lane splitting / filtering.   

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Except in another thread someone wrote that Paris outlawed lane splitting / filtering.   

The article I read said filtering wasnt legal in France, but it wasn't illegal either (kinda the onle Cali system). The government undertook a study in order to determine what laws should be enacted around filtering to formalize its use, and they determined they should actually ban it. The French version of the AMA is pretty pissed.

[twowheeladdict]

Personally, I am so glad I got to see most of our country before wind farms became a thing.  They are definitely an eyesore on the beauty of the landscape. 

[twowheeladdict]

The article I read said filtering wasnt legal in France, but it wasn't illegal either (kinda the onle Cali system). The government undertook a study in order to determine what laws should be enacted around filtering to formalize its use, and they determined they should actually ban it. The French version of the AMA is pretty pissed.

Which of course opens up riders to liability. 

[twowheeladdict]

How about some electric dirt bikes. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUOfnd1ac0M&t=191s

[oldbike54]

Personally, I am so glad I got to see most of our country before wind farms became a thing.  They are definitely an eyesore on the beauty of the landscape.

 have you ever worked in a field of pump jacks and storage tank batteries ?

 Dusty

[bad Chad]

I don’t find wind farms ugly.   I’m a big fan of the concept, so perhaps that has an effect, but I find them rather harmonious with the world around them.    Certainly far less of a stain than any power plant.

[oldbike54]

I don’t find wind farms ugly.   I’m a big fan of the concept, so perhaps that has an effect, but I find them rather harmonious with the world around them.    Certainly far less of a stain than any power plant.

 There is a large wind farm just Southwest from Cedar Vale in Oklahoma that we take rides thru . Fairly curvy little road and at times it feels as though you can reach out and touch the gentle giants as the go about their business . We have to warn folks to not get hypnotized and mesmerized by their slowly twirling blades and run off the road . Up close the white is a nice compliment to the seemingly always green grass growing in the pasture land surrounding the windmills .

 Dusty

[bettythebear]

I've spent time at houses where the wind farms started within 100 yds of the house. Didn't bother me at all. I've always lived near oil drilling areas, and the smell alone sours me on it. Also, in Central Texas you can barely go more than a day without seeing turbine blades travellign down the highway. That's a lot of jobs right now in those manufacturing facilities.

[Shorty]

I was interested in wind power in the 70s. Back then, residential wind power was viable in locations with an average annual wind of 8-10 mph, in area with few restrictions on air movement.  I never studied the wind needed for large scale production.I just wanted to power a hippy farm away from the man. 

[twowheeladdict]

have you ever worked in a field of pump jacks and storage tank batteries ?

 Dusty

I was referring to scenic locations.  If they want to put windfarms in the flyover states I am good with that.  Have them above the crops and pump jacks.

 

[twowheeladdict]

I don’t find wind farms ugly.   I’m a big fan of the concept, so perhaps that has an effect, but I find them rather harmonious with the world around them.    Certainly far less of a stain than any power plant.

Power plants are generally built in industrial areas, or away from anything.  They aren't seen like wind farms are. 

But then again I find cities to be ugly as well. 

I would rather see more conservation than more generation. 

[bratman2]

I would think most of the EV charging could be done at night when the load is less. I am fascinated by the sheer power and torque an EV makes. The technology is scratching the surface in my opinion of what will come. With currently 2% of the vehicles in the US EV I think 5-10 could be handled now at night. Manufacturing an EV does leave a larger foot print in the beginning though.

[LowRyter]

Except in another thread someone wrote that Paris outlawed lane splitting / filtering.   

so?

[twowheeladdict]

so?

Let me explain it to you.   

Many people ride scooters in the cities because they can filter through traffic and park on the sidewalks with the bicycles.  Take away that advantage and they will probably go to pedal assist bicycles. 

Is that clear enough for you to understand.