Another spare key question (Breva 1100)

[Philnewbike]

Hello
I have one working key (and no user code). However I do also have the spare original key, but the bike asks for a code for this one - why does it ask for a code for one key and not the other??? I spoke to a Guzzi dealer today and he said " what a coincidence, I have just spoken to another owner with a spare dead key". I asked so, what do you recommend? Answer: "no idea mate".

So, my question is: What's most likely wrong with the spare key?
And, can I take the spare to a key cutting place and ask them to clone it from the working key? (rather than starting from a fresh new key?)

Thanks all!

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

ill be eagerly following this because I have my main key, a spare key, AND a new-in-the-box dash I've never used... I have been occasionally curious about wtf I'm going to do if my bike ever asks for a code, I wouldnt have the faintest clue what the code is.

[malik]

There's a whole slew of posts on this matter on the grisoghetto that might be worth looking at. Procedures & functions fully described. I'm really glad the V7's don't have this nonsense/bug/feature.

[Philnewbike]

There's a whole slew of posts on this matter on the grisoghetto that might be worth looking at. Procedures & functions fully described. I'm really glad the V7's don't have this nonsense/bug/feature.

Thanks, I will go and have a search there

Update: That site doesn't have a search function so I looked at the first few pages and there is no useful technical info unfortunately, but thanks for the the suggestion.

[AH Fan]

To all those it may concern........... just had 2 new keys cut for my Stelvio.
Its all pretty straight forward and done using the machines ignition no need to go to have the dealer perform this task.
You will need in the case of my Stelvio..... You need the last 5 #s of the frame as well as the key code which all of the Carc bikes have different ones for resetting ECU for service intervals ect.
I think you can pre program up to 5 keys....takes about 5 minutes or so.

Ciao

[Philnewbike]

To all those it may concern........... just had 2 new keys cut for my Stelvio.
Its all pretty straight forward and done using the machines ignition no need to go to have the dealer perform this task.
You will need in the case of my Stelvio..... You need the last 5 #s of the frame as well as the key code which all of the Carc bikes have different ones for resetting ECU for service intervals ect.
I think you can pre program up to 5 keys....takes about 5 minutes or so.

Ciao

Thanks for this but could you elaborate please?
As far as I know we can get a spare cut and cloned easily enough. What isn't possible (as far as guzzi carc riders know) is to get the bike to recognise a spare key without knowing the user code. And since the first owner may have used his DOB for this that means if your antenna fails or you lose your one working key, then you're shafted (or CARCed lol)
Are you saying you know another way? What's this about using the last 5 digits of the chassis number??

[moto]

There is no other way.

Here are the parameters the system deals with:

SERVICE CODE: a five-digit number specific to Breva 1100's that you need to enter in the dash for some operations

USER CODE: a five-digit number that the owner (or a shop) has entered into the dash, which you also need to enter for some operations

KEY IDs: individual numbers recorded in the read-only-memories (ROMs) of the keys, which the dash will read when a key is inserted (we never see those numbers)

Each bike comes from the factory with the USER CODE set to 00000 and with two keys with distinct KEY IDS that have been "memorized by" or REGISTERED in the dash.

True statements about four possible states of the system:

1) If you have two keys with distinct IDs that have been REGISTERED in the dash, you can reset the USER CODE.

2) If you have one key that has been REGISTERED in the dash, and also know the USER CODE, you can REGISTER one or more additional keys with distinct IDs.

3) If you have only one REGISTERED key and do not know the USER CODE, you can only have the single key cloned -- meaning the additional key will have the same internal KEY ID and not be recognized as a distinct key by the dash.

4) If you do not know the USER CODE and the key antenna fails you will need a tow truck, regardless of whether you have one or more REGISTERED keys with you. That is, unless you can repair the antenna (it might be disconnected if you were lucky).

All the above truths are well-established and are not only the opinions of CARC owners such as I but are also attested by a world-famous and extraordinarily acute former Guzzi dealer who has left this site.

Since you are in state (3) you are in danger of winding up in (4), i.e., stuck. You should try to find or guess the USER CODE, since there is no other way to register additional keys if you have only one registered. The best way is to get it from the previous owner. There are also good guesses, including that the USER CODE was set to the SERVICE CODE, or that the USER CODE is the last five digits of the VIN. I have also seen a report that a USER CODE was set to four zeros and a single unit-digit ("1"), as discovered by a blind search. Since it is more difficult to enter large digits with the dash interface, I recommend searching for other low-digit-valued codes if all else fails.

As for how your bike wound up with one unregistered key, I see three possibilities. It may simply have failed so that it does not respond with its KEY ID when polled by the dash. Or the previous owner could have screwed up while REGISTERING the other (possibly new) key, failing to also insert his original key when the system asked for it. Finally, that other, unregistered key could be one the previous owner acquired but never REGISTERED, either because he couldn't follow the instructions in the user manual or because he, too, did not know the USER CODE.

I do not believe that a key that has had its KEY ID recorded in its internal ROM can then be cloned to record the KEY ID of another key. (Because it's a ROM.) However, I am not completely sure of this.

Good luck.

By the way, grisoghetto does have a search function, at least when I visit it. It is a small magnifying glass icon at the top.

Moto

P.S. The owner's manual contains the exact procedures to use in states (1) and (2). You need to read carefully.

P.P.S. A quick web search gives these possibilities for the Breva 1100's SERVICE CODE: 36421, 36424; With joystick: 28315.

[AH Fan]

There is no other way.

Here are the parameters the system deals with:

SERVICE CODE: a five-digit number specific to Breva 1100's that you need to enter in the dash for some operations

USER CODE: a five-digit number that the owner (or a shop) has entered into the dash, which you also need to enter for some operations

KEY IDs: individual numbers recorded in the read-only-memories (ROMs) of the keys, which the dash will read when a key is inserted (we never see those numbers)

Each bike comes from the factory with the USER CODE set to 00000 and with two keys with distinct KEY IDS that have been "memorized by" or REGISTERED in the dash.

True statements about four possible states of the system:

1) If you have two keys with distinct IDs that have been REGISTERED in the dash, you can reset the USER CODE.

2) If you have one key that has been REGISTERED in the dash, and also know the USER CODE, you can REGISTER one or more additional keys with distinct IDs.

3) If you have only one REGISTERED key and do not know the USER CODE, you can only have the single key cloned -- meaning the additional key will have the same internal KEY ID and not be recognized as a distinct key by the dash.

4) If you do not know the USER CODE and the key antenna fails you will need a tow truck, regardless of whether you have one or more REGISTERED keys with you. That is, unless you can repair the antenna (it might be disconnected if you were lucky).

All the above truths are well-established and are not only the opinions of CARC owners such as I but are also attested by a world-famous and extraordinarily acute former Guzzi dealer who has left this site.

Since you are in state (3) you are in danger of winding up in (4), i.e., stuck. You should try to find or guess the USER CODE, since there is no other way to register additional keys if you have only one registered. The best way is to get it from the previous owner. There are also good guesses, including that the USER CODE was set to the SERVICE CODE, or that the USER CODE is the last five digits of the VIN. I have also seen a report that a USER CODE was set to four zeros and a single unit-digit ("1"), as discovered by a blind search. Since it is more difficult to enter large digits with the dash interface, I recommend searching for other low-digit-valued codes if all else fails.

As for how your bike wound up with one unregistered key, I see three possibilities. It may simply have failed so that it does not respond with its KEY ID when polled by the dash. Or the previous owner could have screwed up while REGISTERING the other (possibly new) key, failing to also insert his original key when the system asked for it. Finally, that other, unregistered key could be one the previous owner acquired but never REGISTERED, either because he couldn't follow the instructions in the user manual or because he, too, did not know the USER CODE.

I do not believe that a key that has had its KEY ID recorded in its internal ROM can then be cloned to record the KEY ID of another key. (Because it's a ROM.) However, I am not completely sure of this.

Good luck.

By the way, grisoghetto does have a search function, at least when I visit it. It is a small magnifying glass icon at the top.

Moto

P.S. The owner's manual contains the exact procedures to use in states (1) and (2). You need to read carefully.

P.P.S. A quick web search gives these possibilities for the Breva 1100's SERVICE CODE: 36421, 36424; With joystick: 28315.


There you go..... My situation was that I had lost a key but had one usable key........... after purchasing 2 blanks from supplier I had them both cut and then I went in to the machines system via dash and activated the three keys as needed....all done all three work fine.
I did not know the key code so used last five of Vin# service code is readily available through sites mentioned and above.

I was not aware of other possible issue stated above.

Ciao

[Philnewbike]

There is no other way.

................... .........

Good luck.

By the way, grisoghetto does have a search function, at least when I visit it. It is a small magnifying glass icon at the top.

Moto

P.S. The owner's manual contains the exact procedures to use in states (1) and (2). You need to read carefully.

P.P.S. A quick web search gives these possibilities for the Breva 1100's SERVICE CODE: 36421, 36424; With joystick: 28315.

As usual, Moto, thanks so much for clearing up the information overload! 
Cheers
phil

[Philnewbike]

So I seem to have wondered into a potential solution (in the UK) and just wanted to see if anyone had any experiences of this. Apparently Scorpio Electronics, Norfolk, can take the dash and reprogramme it, all for a very reasonable price (less than the Scandinavian one I've seen mentioned)... any drawbacks??

Oh, and where's the best place to buy a blank key please??

Oh yeah, and the guzzi has been stood outside for 6 months and fired up first time (fresh charge, old petrol) - very impressed. Now for the MOT 

many thanks
phil

[Caffeineo]

I posted a thread here with more details but the short version..... My 2019 Bobber Sport only had one key. I bought a blank on eBay. Took to a good locksmith. They cloned my original key and glued a chip to the new blank. Cut it and I have a working spare. 

[Philnewbike]

I posted a thread here with more details but the short version..... My 2019 Bobber Sport only had one key. I bought a blank on eBay. Took to a good locksmith. They cloned my original key and glued a chip to the new blank. Cut it and I have a working spare. 

Hi mate. Yes that can be done but if your antenna for the immobiliser fails then your bike will ask for your security code and if you don't know it it will become a very heavy paperweight. If you do know the code then there's no need for the glued chip

[Kiwi_Roy]

Good news news for V7 owners, we don't need no stinking chip keys.
AS AH Fan says it's easy enough to duplicate the keys, I have 3 for my Griso, the hardest part was finding a locksmith that could cut the weird internal keys.
Anyone with programmable keys should write the passwords down in their manual and also post it under the seat for future owners.
I hate passwords, anyone who enters a personal one on their bike needs a swift kick, LOL

[Moparnut72]

When I bought my Audace I got only one key. I also was not given the code. The bike had been sold but was taken back due to a fraudulent credit app. I didn't know about the chipped key or the code. I still have only the one key. I lucked as the code is the last 5 digits of the VIN, the last 4 of which are easy to remember as the are the same as the last 4 of my SSN. I saw somewhere that Carmo Electric can program a new key and it appears they are just down the road. I have a Dr's appt in a couple of weeks which is just down the road from them. I will check them out and see about getting a second key. I do have a spare non chipped on the bike which I can use with the code if necessary.
kk

[Philnewbike]

I hate passwords, anyone who enters a personal one on their bike needs a swift kick, LOL

Yes, x1000000000   

[Caffeineo]

Hi mate. Yes that can be done but if your antenna for the immobiliser fails then your bike will ask for your security code and if you don't know it it will become a very heavy paperweight. If you do know the code then there's no need for the glued chip

If my memory is working good today (50/50 chance) I remember trying the unchipped key and it did not ask for a code. It just did not work. I also think I remember needing the dealer code for adding another key........but really it has been over a year and I can barely remember what I did yesterday. 

Memory refresher. https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=106840.0 I was asked for the service code and not the user code. Still waiting for the V9 service code to be leaked.