"The Widowmaker" (later version)

[JJ]

"High-speed Tank Slapper Special"

[JJ]

Every time someone posts about one of these "monsters" for sale the 1970 (?) Cycle Magazine shootout comes to mind . Seem to remember the Norton Combat Commando , and both of the British Triples were actually quicker than the 500 Kawasaki .

 Remember reading somewhere that HD pulled all of their advertising from Cycle because the Sportster was declared a cheater, apparently the MoCo wasn't happy about Cycle being honest .

 TS

Interesting...From that article...if you can find the quarter-mile times for all those bikes, please post them!

[JJ]

W/O using google let's see how good a 67 year old guy's memory is .

 Norton ran a 12.69 , the caveat being it was a Combat model .
 The BSA Rocket 3 ran a 12.80
 The Triumph was just a tick slower , 12.85
 The Honda CB 750 was right at a 13.00
 The Kawasaki 500 was also right at a 13.00
 The Sportster ran a 13.20
 The Suzuki Titan ran a 14.00

 Maybe not exact , always interesting to see how our memories work .

 Dusty

Thanks, Dusty!!!  

Somehow, I seem to remember the original, first edition 1969 Kawasaki Mach III had sub-12 second times (???)

[Rough Edge racing]

 Dusty is correct on the first 11 second bike...It was around the same time the first production bikes exceeded 130 mph
 I did a lot of drag racing bikes back then. On a cool night with a experienced drag race rider the 500 could run mid to high 12's...The average rider on an average day would be a lot slower...To some extent, the other bikes mentioned were slower with non pro riders.
 Drag racing for maximum performance is brutal. My 73 Trident on the line, feet stretched out, chest on the tank...the five starting  tree lights are 1/2 second apart...the stage light is on, the tree lights wink on, One and a half seconds from green I wack the throttle wide open, snap release the clutch on anticipation of the green,coming out of the hole at 7000 rpm, rear tire spinning , grab second at 8000 rpm....the winner is the first guy to the finish, not necessarily the fastest...
   

[PeteS]

The first Superbike Comparison Test was in a 1969 Cycle magazine. I have a copy somewhere but Dusty is correct on the Norton with a 12.69. It was one of the reasons I bought my '71. Well that and maybe the Norton girls. I think it was repeated a year or two later and Norton was no longer on top. The Norton was supposedly stock specification but blue printed by Brian Slark. The Harley may have had oversize valves.
The trouble with Kawi triples is few could get them out of the hole fast. Not enough throttle and they would bog, too much and they would flip over. I had one drag race with a 500 and beat it but the rider was a Corvette guy not that familiar with riding motorcycles.

Edit, Dusty was right. March 1970 Superbike Comparison Test.

https://triplescanada.proboards.com/thread/3435/1970-cycle-superbike-comparison-test

Pete

[Muzz]

My bro-in-laws Mach lll with coil and points ignition with drum brakes that didn't was a fearsome beast indeed. (Ozzie model)

By the time they arrived in NZ they had CDI, disk brakes, strengthened frame and the motor had been detuned.  Was still a widowmaker, just gave you a fighting chance.

[JJ]

My bro-in-laws Mach lll with coil and points ignition with drum brakes that didn't was a fearsome beast indeed. (Ozzie model)

By the time they arrived in NZ they had CDI, disk brakes, strengthened frame and the motor had been detuned.  Was still a widowmaker, just gave you a fighting chance.

Previously someone else posted something that said the reason they were prone to "High-Speed-Tank-Slapping"...was that that the rear shocks had plastic bushings...and of course, the frame was generally weak...

At 19, I was a fearless rider, but sold my 1975 500cc Mach III, (which I bought brand new).....after an 85 mph "Tank Slapper" that sacred me so badly, that I sold it shortly thereafter with only 5,000 miles on it...

I still remember in wonder that I actually held on...without crashing it into a stone wall... on a famous motorcycle twisty road, called "River Road", between Red Hook and Rhinebeck, New York, along the Hudson River....My guardian angel was obviously looking over me that night...

[Rough Edge racing]

Cook Neilson claimed the 77 Suzuki GS750 the the first Japanese bike to have first class handling. By 1979 he admitted the GS1000 could best his beloved Ducatis on a fast mountain road.. But he also talks about " laughing inside you helmet" or the pleasure  of Ducati and Guzzi to maintain a high rate of speed without the rider working hard and a low fear factor.
  I never experienced a tank slapper..Testing has shown if it starts out and you have time and control ,shift you weight forward to slow it down..

[JJ]

QUOTE:  I never experienced a tank slapper..Testing has shown if it starts out and you have time and control ,shift you weight forward to slow it down..

YES!! ...and you immediately let off the throttle!!

[Muzz]

  I never experienced a tank slapper..Testing has shown if it starts out and you have time and control ,shift you weight forward to slow it down..

Two in my 57 years on bikes, the first an AJS 500 single with slogged everything at 20mph, the second on that Mach lll at 60mph in a straight line and hitting a small irregularity in the road.  An evil machine, but memorable.

[JJ]

QUOTE:  "....the second on that Mach lll at 60mph in a straight line and hitting a small irregularity in the road.  An evil machine, but memorable."

Thus..."The Widowmaker...." 

[Gappy]

I owned a 71. It was one of the funnest bikes I ever had. It was terrible to take it on long road trip. I was 19 at the time and did not know how dangerous the bike was. I did go into a wobble once at high speeds. I did not know what a death wobble was. This bike would foul plugs usually because the automatic oil injector would not work right for me. I finally killed it when at the local drag strip the bike hooked up too good and I wheelied into the christmas tree and tore off the right side case and bent the front end. I could not afford to fix it at the time and sold it.  I would like to own another one of those bikes. Mine was blue and had the squarish tank which I think was the best looking.

[Muzz]

Mine was blue and had the squarish tank which I think was the best looking.

CDI, disk brake and detuned.  Those first 1969 (ah la bro-in-laws) was refrigerator with chrome guards.  A nice looking bike that hid it's evil nature.  But Jeeeeezzzz, that power band!!!

[Muzz]

Well, lookee here.  Managed to find a photo of me and my wife-to-be at that stage posing on his Kwaka.  A group of us on a lurk trip to my home area of Golden Bay.  We were in cars but Ben took the Kwaka.  Posed while we were regrouping.  For some reason he kept getting a long way ahead of us...





edit: good grief, that's over 50 years ago!

[SIR REAL ED]

W/O using google let's see how good a 67 year old guy's memory is .

 Norton ran a 12.69 , the caveat being it was a Combat model .
 The BSA Rocket 3 ran a 12.80
 The Triumph was just a tick slower , 12.85
 The Honda CB 750 was right at a 13.00
 The Kawasaki 500 was also right at a 13.00
 The Sportster ran a 13.20
 The Suzuki Titan ran a 14.00

 Maybe not exact , always interesting to see how our memories work .

 Dusty

Those were the good ole days.  When motorcycle magazines were great sources of technical information and insight into what was happening in the industry.  I remember the exposure of the Sportster cheating.

Cycle also did a massive Superbike comparison in 1972.  I think the test was at least 12 pages, lots of text, lots of information.  I had that magazine at least 10 years and probably read that text 15 times or more.

1978 was a great year for the Superbikes from the Big Four, and motorcycle magazines.  The Z1R, XS Eleven, GS1000, and the CBX.  The Cycle magazine of the CBX test was probably the best "behind the scenes" magazine test of all time.  I gave away that magazine about 5 years ago......

[JJ]

Well, lookee here.  Managed to find a photo of me and my wife-to-be at that stage posing on his Kwaka.  A group of us on a lurk trip to my home area of Golden Bay.  We were in cars but Ben took the Kwaka.  Posed while we were regrouping.  For some reason he kept getting a long way ahead of us...





edit: good grief, that's over 50 years ago!

That's a great photo and lovely memory...

[Muzz]

Muzz , you old dog you 

 Still waiting on someone to confirm if my memory is OK or if has gone AWOL 

 TS

I can't remember that test Dusty.  I do remember (I think) Cycle magazine trying to do a standing quarter on the 750.  They couldn't get an accurate figure because even their heaviest rider couldn't keep the front wheel on the ground.  "It went down the track in a series of bounding leaps".  That I can understand.  The 500 was bad enough.

[Rough Edge racing]

[moto-uno]

  WOW , this conversation has certainly woken some old memories , didn't that cheater Sportster also
have some porting done to it ?  Peter