Honda engineering-tough to beat (limited GC)

[Muzz]

Hondas were the only Japanese bikes I have owned. I have worked on other people's Japanese bikes and I have concluded that (in most cases) Honda's engineering (at least with earlier bikes) made far more sense than other brands. When I owned them I was not interested in"excitement', more like get me to work on time. My Matcless 350 just hammered chains out around town, so was sold. They were all reliable. They included the early C100 stepthru, CB100, CB 250RS (brilliant bike) and GB400.

Finally however, after over 200,000 miles I wanted a bike with NO CHAINS, so in 2003 I put the order in for my B750 Breva. I still have it and it still puts a smile on my dial.

[faffi]

Interesting on the Hondas. My experience has been that Suzuki made the most sensible bikes, followed by Kawasaki. Yamaha a bit further back in third, with Honda last. A few examples:

The original Honda CB750, 1969-78, needed the engine removed from the frame in order to torque the cylinder heads. The engine needed this procedure to be done at the first service and then every now and then later in life in order to prevent head gasket leaks. Now, how many shops would do this, and how many owners would pay for it? Not many. How many CB750s had weeping head gaskets? Plenty. Did Honda correct it for the second generation CB750s? Only partially, as the engine still had to come out in order to remove the cylinder head.

Other examples include oil filters hidden being the whole clutch engine cover, ditto with balancer chain adjusters, valve adjustment that demanded removal of radiators, ignition coils, wiring harness etc. Naturally, not every Honda were like these, and many were OK to work on - and I still consider Honda to be the most premium brand from Japan. And probably globally.

The Yamahas also had their share of not so bright solutions. For instance, the TX500 had to have their rotor removed in order to tighten the balancer chain. This was fixed for the XS500, but you still had to remove the stator to gain access. On my Virago, fitting the carbs to the cylinder heads is an operation that I consider on the verge of unacceptable, and also access to the exhaust valve on the rear cylinder is a PITA. And if you really love a challenge, adjust the valves on a 750 Super Tenere or MT-07!

In my experience, Kawasaki's main issue was poor assembly, especially the wiring harness. And they have their fair share of silly designs as well, like having to drain the coolant and remove the thermostat housing on most of their liquid cooled bikes in order to adjust the valves, and replacing the alternator on a Vulcan 750 has created many "solutions" just to not having to remove the engine. But overall, I find them to be straight forward to work on.

Suzuki, though, have been the simples to work on for me, with few things to annoy in general. The Intruder 700/750/800 being an exception to the rule.

However, I fully understand that mine - as just about everybody else's - opinions are subjective and based on personal experience 

[s1120]

Interesting on the Hondas. My experience has been that Suzuki made the most sensible bikes, followed by Kawasaki. Yamaha a bit further back in third, with Honda last. A few examples:

The original Honda CB750, 1969-78, needed the engine removed from the frame in order to torque the cylinder heads. The engine needed this procedure to be done at the first service and then every now and then later in life in order to prevent head gasket leaks. Now, how many shops would do this, and how many owners would pay for it? Not many. How many CB750s had weeping head gaskets? Plenty. Did Honda correct it for the second generation CB750s? Only partially, as the engine still had to come out in order to remove the cylinder head.

Other examples include oil filters hidden being the whole clutch engine cover, ditto with balancer chain adjusters, valve adjustment that demanded removal of radiators, ignition coils, wiring harness etc. Naturally, not every Honda were like these, and many were OK to work on - and I still consider Honda to be the most premium brand from Japan. And probably globally.

The Yamahas also had their share of not so bright solutions. For instance, the TX500 had to have their rotor removed in order to tighten the balancer chain. This was fixed for the XS500, but you still had to remove the stator to gain access. On my Virago, fitting the carbs to the cylinder heads is an operation that I consider on the verge of unacceptable, and also access to the exhaust valve on the rear cylinder is a PITA. And if you really love a challenge, adjust the valves on a 750 Super Tenere or MT-07!

In my experience, Kawasaki's main issue was poor assembly, especially the wiring harness. And they have their fair share of silly designs as well, like having to drain the coolant and remove the thermostat housing on most of their liquid cooled bikes in order to adjust the valves, and replacing the alternator on a Vulcan 750 has created many "solutions" just to not having to remove the engine. But overall, I find them to be straight forward to work on.

Suzuki, though, have been the simples to work on for me, with few things to annoy in general. The Intruder 700/750/800 being an exception to the rule.

However, I fully understand that mine - as just about everybody else's - opinions are subjective and based on personal experience 

I agree with this about Suzuki. The old 8 valve DOHC engines were stone simple, tough as a anvil, and easy to work on. The 16v motors added some complexity, but as history shows were still overbuilt, and tough. The GS G series bikes had a shaft drive system that needed NOTHING, and had vary little shaft effect on the handling. My old GS650GL was really by far the best bike ive owned. Nice power curve, good milage, almost zero maintance.. "Zippy" enough to keep you happy, but also happy and content at any speed. Sold it about 15 years ago when life got in the way, and wish I didnt. Granted I would probably not have my Guzzi now if I did, so good call.

[JohninVT]

Motorcycling as we know it wouldn’t exist without Honda.  The Italians and Brits would still be putting out bikes that require massive amounts of maintenance, with terrible quality control and poor engineering.  Honda made/makes everyone better by driving expectations around mechanical design and reliability.  They have more iconic bikes than any other brand.  It’s not even close.  Whether one “likes” Honda or other Japanese manufacturers is not really the point.  For more than half a century, Honda has been raising the bar for all motorcycle manufacturers and we’ve all benefited tremendously. 

[SIR REAL ED]

Well said faffi and s1120.

Compare the Suzuki GS series valve adjustment special tool to the Yamaha XS series valve adjustment special tool as an indicator of thought.

You could get off a chain drive bike and ride a Suzuki GS1000/850/650GT and never know the bike had a drive shaft.  Get off the chain drive bike and on to a Yamaha XS1100/850/750 and you were instantly aware of the drive shaft.

All that said, we are discussing first world problems that most people don't mind having.

[faffi]

I guess most have forgotten about these first world bikes already. I doubt there have been a better shaft drive system than that of the Suzuki GS series. I doubt it had more torque reactions than the current BMWs with all their complexity, and it was very reliable. The XS rivaled the BMWs for having the best elevator, but lost; only BMWs of the day would go 4 inches up before moving forward. The XJ series also had pronounced jacking effect, but I will claim that the Virago of mine is not far off a GS Suzuki.

I too had a GS650GL, but could never get to to handle properly. Despite more spring preload in the forks, they still bottomed under hard braking, causing the front wheel to lock and skid. And despite new Koni shock absorbers, the bike was still weaving around corners when riding briskly. Fitting a Superbike style handlebar helped a lot on the comfort for me. I still think it is a beautiful bike.

[SIR REAL ED]

I owned a 1980 Suzuki GS1000G for 18 years. 

Great looks, comfy seat, big gas tank, good handling for the day.  If I had stayed in upstate NY where the roads are straighter, then they are where I moved to in Virginai, the 600 lb wet weight would not have convinced me to sell the bike for a lighter machine.

[s1120]

I guess most have forgotten about these first world bikes already. I doubt there have been a better shaft drive system than that of the Suzuki GS series. I doubt it had more torque reactions than the current BMWs with all their complexity, and it was very reliable. The XS rivaled the BMWs for having the best elevator, but lost; only BMWs of the day would go 4 inches up before moving forward. The XJ series also had pronounced jacking effect, but I will claim that the Virago of mine is not far off a GS Suzuki.

I too had a GS650GL, but could never get to to handle properly. Despite more spring preload in the forks, they still bottomed under hard braking, causing the front wheel to lock and skid. And despite new Koni shock absorbers, the bike was still weaving around corners when riding briskly. Fitting a Superbike style handlebar helped a lot on the comfort for me. I still think it is a beautiful bike.

This is my exact bike!!!  I also swapped to the superbike bar, and that was a game changer for me. Adding slightly longer rear shocks, and progressive springs, and sliding the forks up the triple trees about a inch REALLY helped the handling. It was a little twitchy steering, but never any shake, and it never felt like it was going to throw you off. I am sorry I sold it, but at the time, it was just sitting... 

[faffi]

Brothers in Low Slingers