Honda's new E clutch.

[bigbikerrick]

Check this out folks, I like it. I can ride just like my CT 70  when I was a teenager, or use it as a conventional clutch. Pretty cool!  Can this be considered "artificial intelligence"?

https://www.advrider.com/honda-e-clutch-makes-life-easier-but-only-if-you-want-it-to/

[guzziart]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think I demo rode a BMW GS750 or GS850 that had a similar set up....didn't need to use clutch lever to shift.

[Perazzimx14]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think I demo rode a BMW GS750 or GS850 that had a similar set up....didn't need to use clutch lever to shift.

Quick shifter, lots of bikes have these. On my GSA for up shifts you do not let off the throttle just hold it open and upshift as fast as you like. When downshifting let of the throttle and poosh the shifter down. The ECU will blip the throttle as you press the shifter to rev match.

Some bikes have quick shift on upshift only others have quick shift up and down. I wasn't sure I'd like it but turns out it slicker than deer gut on a doorknob.

[bigbikerrick]

 I have ridden a few off road bikes with a "Rekluse clutch" which is a mechanical centrifugal clutch available in the aftermarket. It works wonderfully, and keeps you from stalling the bike in some technical situations. This Honda setup, does basically the same thing, using electronics. With a rekluse clutch, you can also still use the clutch in the conventional way.
Rick D.

[bigbikerrick]

I think the difference from a quickshifter, is the honda system, modulates the clutch friction point electronically.
Rick D.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Neutral to 1st, and all other gear changes, can be done without working the hand clutch on the e-clutch setup. I think that's the big difference.

[twowheeladdict]

Doing everything they can to reduce the level of skill required to operate the bike. 

This probably equates to more people riding who have no business being on a motorcycle.

[kingoffleece]

I hated that feature om my brand new to me bought with mowing lawn money Trail 70 in 1968, but it was all they had.  My buddy got a 69 the next year with a REAL clutch!  I was so miffed as I wanted a real clutch so I could shift like the big boys in the neighborhood!

[bigbikerrick]

I hated that feature om my brand new to me bought with mowing lawn money Trail 70 in 1968, but it was all they had.  My buddy got a 69 the next year with a REAL clutch!  I was so miffed as I wanted a real clutch so I could shift like the big boys in the neighborhood!

Thats funny KOF! Similar happened to me, when my riding buddy /cousin got an SL 70 for X mas. That looked like a "real" motorcycle,with its wire spoke wheels,and had a real clutch and a 4 speed. When you are 13 years old it was all about revving the piss out of it,and popping the clutch, to spin the rear tire!   
Rick D.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Doing everything they can to reduce the level of skill required to operate the bike. 

This probably equates to more people riding who have no business being on a motorcycle.

People who have no business riding motorcycles already ride them and have been since Easy Rider came out. IMO this will make it safer for those riders who haven't developed those skills, and it makes "fun" motorcycles more accessible to those with disabilities. Nothing wrong with that. People love to dump on DCTs and trikes until they meet an amputee riding one. Riders with plenty of skill, including professional racers, still skip clutching and use quick shifters, reason being it's a lot of fun.

[Perazzimx14]

Doing everything they can to reduce the level of skill required to operate the bike. 

This probably equates to more people riding who have no business being on a motorcycle.

I've often wondered what skill level does it take to squeeze a lever?

If this E clutch tech gets people who would normally not be interested in motorcycling, interested in motorcycling its a good thing.

[Stretch]

Can it be disabled at will, or is one stuck with the computer doing it all for the rider all the time?
And what happens when the electronics break? Is the bike immobilized? Isi t John McGuiness time?

                                                                   -Stretch

[Dilliw]

Tech like this would be nice in the woods, or when my Griso takes a wrong turn and ends up in traffic.

[Perazzimx14]

Can it be disabled at will, or is one stuck with the computer doing it all for the rider all the time?
And what happens when the electronics break? Is the bike immobilized? Isi t John McGuiness time?

                                                                   -Stretch

What happens with any of the "tech" like the TFT on your late model MG goes tits up? Failed electronics the same as failed analog parts will leave you immobilized.   

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I don't think Honda have released those details yet, but if the electronics are broken in a disengaged state then they likely would not get in the way of regular clutch operations. If you look at their visualizations of the design (computer renderings, not the actual product), it looks like it's basically a bolt on accessory.

https://global.honda/en/newsroom/news/2023/2231010eng.html
https://global.honda/en/business_and_innovation/motorcycles/Honda_E-Clutch/

[bigbikerrick]

It will be interesting to learn more about it,as  technical details come out. It does look like its a "modular" unit that can be used on different engine applications. 
Rick.

[chuck peterson]

…..Convert eh?
 

[twowheeladdict]

I've often wondered what skill level does it take to squeeze a lever?

If this E clutch tech gets people who would normally not be interested in motorcycling, interested in motorcycling its a good thing.

Missed my point, but that is expected.  Thanks for playing. 

[Perazzimx14]

Missed my point, but that is expected.  Thanks for playing.

What was your point? Should bikes be made harder to operate to chase away potential new riders??

[tazio]

I took TWO to mean that, overall, there are additional skill sets required to survive out on the road today and many people are seduced by the experiences we have had. They jump on their first bike like it's "nothing to it",
never imagining the depth of learning needed to navigate our world -and the price to pay in a pound of flesh is seldom factored in to their "obsession of the month".  -just my guess.

Additionally, handing out motorcycle licenses in the USA like popcorn hasn't helped our survival rate.
..I know an airplane pilot isn't a direct example, but there are a multitude of dynamics to understand and master before you become a pilot.
This may have scared off a few "wanabees" not ready to commit what all may be involved to keep yourself and passengers alive.
Same with motorcycling, to a lesser extent?
 
How easy do I need it to be anyways?
That's the question I ask myself.

 

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

I think much of that is a hobbyist perspective. Motorcycles are transportation. You learn to ride a bicycle and can progress to a motorcycle soon after. The whole country could benefit from better driver & rider education, training, and testing - not limited to motorcycles. Having an instructor ride on the pillion may not fly the same way it does with copiloting a plane, but motorcycle riding sims would be great to see worked into the process. They are in other countries.

Why not remove the extra task of operating a hand clutch from a new rider? They'll have a better chance at learning the other skills they need without that burden, and they can learn to operate a hand clutch later if they care to. If I had started out on a bike with a foot clutch and tank shifter I'd likely have dumped it at a stop sign and quit riding my first time out. Having learned to ride on more approachable motorcycles first, adding a few more things to muscle memory was much less stressful.

[tazio]

More good perspectives 

[Perazzimx14]

I took TWO to mean that, overall, there are additional skill sets required to survive out on the road today and many people are seduced by the experiences we have had. They jump on their first bike like it's "nothing to it",
never imagining the depth of learning needed to navigate our world -and the price to pay in a pound of flesh is seldom factored in to their "obsession of the month".  -just my guess.

Additionally, handing out motorcycle licenses in the USA like popcorn hasn't helped our survival rate.
..I know an airplane pilot isn't a direct example, but there are a multitude of dynamics to understand and master before you become a pilot.
This may have scared off a few "wanabees" not ready to commit what all may be involved to keep yourself and passengers alive.
Same with motorcycling, to a lesser extent?
 
How easy do I need it to be anyways?
That's the question I ask myself.

Does making it harder to ride make it safer? If that's the case foot clutches, and jockey shifters should be required. I mean is a clutch lever really holding would-be riders back form giving motorcycling a whirl?



   

[tazio]

Does making it harder to ride make it safer? If that's the case foot clutches, and jockey shifters should be required. I mean is a clutch lever really holding would-be riders back form giving motorcycling a whirl?



 

Missed my point.

[Guzzistajohn]

No thanks. The added doo dads added mean nothing to me. I've ridden with the recluse clutch in the woods, I prefer riding the "friction zone" on the clutch, but to each his own

[Perazzimx14]

Missed my point.

No, not all.  It's the same point the other poster tried to make that by removing a lever people who would not normally would have entertained motorcycling because they do not have the skill set will now go out buy a motorcycle not knowing what they are getting themselves into and endangering themselves and the public at the same time.

[tazio]

Please re-read this.

I took TWO to mean that, overall, there are additional skill sets required to survive out on the road today and many people are seduced by the experiences we have had. They jump on their first bike like it's "nothing to it",
never imagining the depth of learning needed to navigate our world -and the price to pay in a pound of flesh is seldom factored in to their "obsession of the month".  -just my guess.

Additionally, handing out motorcycle licenses in the USA like popcorn hasn't helped our survival rate.
..I know an airplane pilot isn't a direct example, but there are a multitude of dynamics to understand and master before you become a pilot.
This may have scared off a few "wanabees" not ready to commit what all may be involved to keep yourself and passengers alive.
Same with motorcycling, to a lesser extent?
 
How easy do I need it to be anyways?
That's the question I ask myself.

 

Infer what you want.

Ride safe my friend

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Honda announced the first motorcycles that their new e-clutch will be offered on, the 2024 CB650R and CBR650R
https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/462283/new-cb1000-hornet-return-of-the-cbr600rr-and-innovative-honda-e-clutch-headline-hondas-full-24ym-eur

[Speciality]

As well as my M-G I have a 2023 CBR650R with optional quickshifter. It also has a slipper/assist clutch. The quickshifter allows me to change up (but not down) without closing the throttle, similar to doing clutchless changes but with less strain on the gearbox as it momentarily cuts the ignition. I use it occasionally when “pressing on” a bit, not least because it’s not great at lower engine speeds. The assist bit of the slipper/assist clutch simply means it has a mechanism that allows a very light clutch action (one finger light). At my age, with a little arthritis in my left hand, it is a big help especially in town. It has no impact whatsoever on clutch use beyond giving a light action.
The 2024 CBR650R will be available in two versions. One is the standard; that just has a new paint job and a better instrument cluster. The other one has the optional e-clutch fitted. This will be a retrofit to the standard one too as essentially it has a slightly wider clutch side outer engine case to accommodate the two little electric motors and mechanism to operate what is actually the same clutch as in the standard version. The e-clutch version also has a standard clutch lever, the use of which overrides the e-clutch. This I would imagine is better for doing u-turns where most long-time riders of ordinary clutch bikes would prefer to have fine control even though the e-clutch won’t allow the engine to stall. This is one reason why personally I don’t want DCT.
Really it’s just a much more cost-effective way of being able to make clutchless changes using the foot gear lever both up and down the gearbox purely by moving the gear lever and is significantly lighter than DCT which has two clutches, a motor, an additional oil filter and no clutch lever at all.

I make no point arguing in favour of or against the system as I have not tried it but I have tried to explain it as best I can. Certainly I find the slipper/assist clutch on mine (quite common on Japanese and European bikes these days, other than bikes with dry clutches like most Guzzis) to make a big difference to lightness of controls and hence comfort, without affecting at all the skill needed in fine clutch control.