Clutch isn't working on new rebuild - possibly the pushrod

[texasmoto]

Hey y'all, wonder if you could troubleshoot something with me. The clutch pushrod appears to be binding or not actuating and I'm not sure why.

The transmission has been rebuilt, the engine has been rebuilt. The engine turns over just fine with no obstructions on its own.

When the transmission is mated to the engine, the final drive spins as the engine turns over. Nothing unusual there. However, it's tricky to try to change gears but I was able to shift up or down a gear but it doesn't do this reliably.

The bigger problem: I might be wrong here, but I would expect that if the clutch lever is pulled, this arm would push onto this pushrod and disengage the final drive from spinning. At this point, if the motor turns the final drive should not rotate, right?

Well, the final drive spins regardless of what I do with that arm. It doesn't feel like the push rod is moving. It feels like it is binding somewhere. The little spring that should be next to the pushrod seems too weak to return it, too.

The reason I'm unsure that this is the problem is that when the transmission is removed, that rod moves quite easily through the transmission. It's only when it is mated to the engine that it seems to bind.

I thought it was going to be so straightforward reconnecting the tranmsission and the engine 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Could of things: 1) Did you align the dot on one tooth of the pressure plate with the arrow stamped into the circumference of the flywheel? If not, springs may not be in their pockets, but rather cocked or completely coil bound. 2) Which way did you install the clutch friction plates - protruding centers forward or rearward? Should be rearward/towards the transmission.

[glenm64]

I recently acquired a '94 1100 Cali.
Did rear main seal, new clutch and gearbox seals etc.
On reassembly clutch wouldn't fully release.
Triple checked everything but couldn't identify problem.
Started measuring everything and problem became apparent.
On the flywheel  I replaced the retaining bolts and the Schnor washers with Nord lock.
New bolts had 0.5mm thicker heads and Nord lock washers were over 1mm thicker than Schnor.
When fully pushed in, the cup that pushes against the pressure plate was hitting the flywheel retaining bolt heads.
Changed back to Schnor washers and all was good.
I've done the T3 clutch several times before and used Nord locks on flywheel bolts without issue.
No idea why the square barrel had the issue.
Just my experience.

[texasmoto]

Yes, I had aligned the dot.

The clutch friction plates curve outwards toward the rear of the bike.

But it's possible that the washers are too thick. I actually noticed how thick they felt in comparison to what was on there. So I will order a set of Shnorr washers, but I will also wait a minute for other folks to weigh in, too.

[Tom H]

I do not know what state of assembly your bike is in. So..

Yes the rear drive will turn when the engine turns with the clutch hand lever released even in neutral. It's also likely to turn with the hand lever pulled. If you have a rear wheel on the drive, it's less likely to turn with the hand lever pulled.

Hand lever.... Did you properly adjust the adjustments? If the proper hand lever free play is there, can you pull the hand lever to the hand grip? If not, something is not adjusted or installed correctly.

If you can not pull the lever to the grip here is some things that can cause it. Like Charlie mentioned, are the friction plates facing the correct way? The raised top hat side towards the trans. What  push rod seals did you use? Did you use the O ring method or the factory seals? Did you remove the factory seals before installing the O rings?

Is the outer body of the push rod about flush with the rear trans cover where it goes in? If well above the cover, could be the push rod is not in the hole in the cup.

Just a few things to look at.

Tom

[glenm64]

As mentioned, I also replaced clutch also (it was from S.D.)
I believe my issue was a combination of both the clutch plates and Nord washers being thicker.

[John A]

Yes, I had aligned the dot.

The clutch friction plates curve outwards toward the rear of the bike.

But it's possible that the washers are too thick. I actually noticed how thick they felt in comparison to what was on there. So I will order a set of Shnorr washers, but I will also wait a minute for other folks to weigh in, too.

What do you mean, curved ? It’s sposed to be flat. Edit: the reason it caught my eye is that if the plate hangs up when you put it together it will cup .

[pehayes]

I've re-read the OP several times.  Other comments are reasonable.  My additional comments:

1-You can't move the transmission lever or the pushrod by hand.  There is a tremendous amount of leverage advantage to be gained from the hand lever through the cable.  Are you trying to compress this by hand at the transmission?  No go.

2-Are you trying to shift the gears while the transmission is static?  Guzzi doesn't like that.  For testing purposes it is best to have someone turning the rear wheel or someone turning the engine by hand in order to move the transmission innards.

Neither of those comments are important if the discs aren't centered or have been installed backwards or if the alignment dot is off or if the springs aren't seated.  One you get it shifted into neutral, you MAY be able to rotate the engine while the transmission and rear drive remain static.  But with a new reconstruction there may be enough 'drag' to move bits downstream.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[texasmoto]

I've re-read the OP several times.  Other comments are reasonable.  My additional comments:

1-You can't move the transmission lever or the pushrod by hand.  There is a tremendous amount of leverage advantage to be gained from the hand lever through the cable.  Are you trying to compress this by hand at the transmission?  No go.

2-Are you trying to shift the gears while the transmission is static?  Guzzi doesn't like that.  For testing purposes it is best to have someone turning the rear wheel or someone turning the engine by hand in order to move the transmission innards.

Neither of those comments are important if the discs aren't centered or have been installed backwards or if the alignment dot is off or if the springs aren't seated.  One you get it shifted into neutral, you MAY be able to rotate the engine while the transmission and rear drive remain static.  But with a new reconstruction there may be enough 'drag' to move bits downstream.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Yes and yes. Which leads me to believe that I might be proceeding with a little too much caution. I know the install is good, so I’m not gonna dive back into it. I’m going to focus on the front end and the controls, and if the hand lever doesn’t actuate the clutch at that point then I know something is up. And I don’t have to wait for the bike to be complete to test that.

Thanks everyone. I’ll post the outcome regardless of what happens

[Tom H]

Again not knowing what condition the bike is in.

You could take the lever and perch off the handlebar, slide it on a broom stick or the like so you have something to hold onto, maybe clamp the broom stick in a vice, Hook up the clutch cable to the trans and the lever and give the hand lever a pull to see if it works right.

Tom

[Rower30]

OK, the issue was air trapped in the upper slave cylinder on the handlebars. The bike is in warranty, so I didn't mess it up taking it all apart then having Cadre Cycles potentially fix it all back for me. That's just rude. But if I missed an adjustment that is "user" adjustable I'd look at that first and check other bikes for consistency.

The air seems to prevent the handlebar slave cylinder plunger from extending far enough out, and this is what caused the excessive lever movement before it contacted the plunger. There is a threaded adjuster on the lever, yes, but this is factory set and hasn't moved over night so that wasn't suspect. The leverage ratio is pretty sensitive so a little air goes a long way to killing the lever's function. There isn't air in cable's!

There is an air bleed screw at the slave cylinder on the clutch housing on the engine but the lever pull was returned to normal with the handle bar bleed screw addressed. We didn't bleed that location as it seems fine and air mostly works it's way up.

Enzo from Cadre Cycle Emailed me that evening at 9:00PM to answer my Email! Yep, that's service. I stopped by to check other bikes with the same brakes and mine was the odd ball at the lever. Enzo had the service tech fix it right there instead of making an appointment for me later. I remined him I was just making sure it was the bike and not a missed adjustment by yours truly and could return later on appointment. Again, great service.