The Bikeriders movie (NGC)

[twowheeladdict]

Danny Lyon, the author of the book by the same title, explained that bikerider was a common name for motorcycle riders in general in the Midwest when he rode in the 1960s. He said it did not mean what biker means now. Just so you know. I remember saying we rode bikes without implying we were bikers in the sense popular now.

I watch YouTube motorcycle content from around the world and biker is used for motorcyclist frequently in other countries.

[kidsmoke]

At Last someone has mentioned the name of Jodie Comer. Thank you Dave Swanson

She was extraordinary.

[tazio]

Have never called myself a biker.
Motorcyclist, yes. Biker, no.

[blackcat]

OK, perhaps….but this movie certainly portrays “bike riders” as the gang-associated, violent, antisocial types; does it not?

Not exactly the intent of the founder of this particular gang though it does change to what you describe in the later part of the film.

[moto]

Not exactly the intent of the founder of this particular gang though it does change to what you describe in the later part of the film.

The movie is not a very good guide to history. The Outlaws were actually founded in the mid 1930s, not by the person indicated in the film.

I remember in the 60s my friends and I rode bikes and we never called them motorcycles. Later on, the press decided to label the outlaw gangs "bikers." That stuck, and before long many people who rode bikes were prissily saying that they weren't bikers but "motorcyclists." Now the standard meaning of bike is a bicycle, and some of us ride in distinguished gentlemens' rides. I have always been a bike rider. If someone mistakes that for being a biker, I correct them and change the subject.

The movie describes a watershed period when combative, territorial thugs became less interested in parties and picnics, and turned into organized crime racketeers. I don't know about the truth of this.

It's a good movie, half documented fact. I'll go see it again tomorrow. I see that it is beginning to leave local screens. By the way, movie theaters have improved quite a lot since the days of sticky popcorn on the floor and close-quarter seats. Now the seats are big and there are a few people in the theater. The price is only nine dollars for seniors in the matinee this week. That's a lot less than the streaming price will be, I think.

[blackcat]

"The movie is not a very good guide to history"

Yes, I understand that but for the convenience of film time I understand why the movie is a relatively short snapshot in time.

I do have a couple of complaints about the film's writing but I wouldn't comment on them given that some people have not seen the film but I did find the ending to be unlikely given the rider.

[kidsmoke]

"The movie is not a very good guide to history"

Yes, I understand that but for the convenience of film time I understand why the movie is a relatively short snapshot in time.

I do have a couple of complaints about the film's writing but I wouldn't comment on them given that some people have not seen the film but I did find the ending to be unlikely given the rider.

My GF and I felt the same.

[twowheeladdict]

Have never called myself a biker.
Motorcyclist, yes. Biker, no.

I say Motorcycle Enthusiast.

[rocker59]

Red and I caught a matinee showing of Bikeriders today.

We thought it was a fantastic snapshot of a place and time.

Great sets, wardrobe, filming, and acting. Great music.

Kathy's narration kind of reminded me of Henry's narration in Good Fellas.

Can't wait to see it again.

[rocker59]

I did find the ending to be unlikely given the rider.

But the real Kathy and Benny did exactly in real life what the movie's characters did at the end of the movie.  And were together until her death later in life.  Search around and there is some reading.  Lyon spoke with Benny (and some others who are portrayed) before the movie project began.  It was during one of the conversations that Benny told Lyon that the famous pool table photo is not of him.  LOL.

[balvenie]

FWIW
We went to see The Bikeriders this morning, the main attraction being Jodie Comer who starred in Killing Eve.
Although the violence was off-putting, it held our attention for the whole two hours, being a very well told story

[rocker59]

FWIW
We went to see The Bikeriders this morning, the main attraction being Jodie Comer who starred in Killing Eve.
Although the violence was off-putting, it held our attention for the whole two hours, being a very well told story

More off putting for me was the 20 minutes of horror movie previews the theater showed prior to Bikeriders.  It was disgusting.

[Tkelly]

One of the outlaws who murdered 3 people in the late 90s.Madman Miller is requesting compassionate release from prison.He and fellow outlaw cut the throats of sa 74 year old couple who ran a cycle shop in Richmond ILThe McHenry County cops coerced a confession from the couples son who was sentenced to death and sat in prison for 3 years until the FBI found the real killers.Madmans Judge said he wished he could have given the death penalty,so Madman’s chances don’t look great.

[blackcat]

But the real Kathy and Benny did exactly in real life what the movie's characters did at the end of the movie.  And were together until her death later in life.  Search around and there is some reading.  Lyon spoke with Benny (and some others who are portrayed) before the movie project began.  It was during one of the conversations that Benny told Lyon that the famous pool table photo is not of him.  LOL.

OK, that makes it acceptable given the accuracy of what happened. I don't believe that I would have made that choice but different times than now.

[rocker59]

The movie is not a very good guide to history. The Outlaws were actually founded in the mid 1930s, not by the person indicated in the film.
 

Seeing the movie has inspired me to do a little reading. 

As I understand it, John Davis is noted as founder of the McCook Outlaws, the core of the club being Electro-Motive employees.  The original riding club was formed in 1935, but languished until after WWII.  It was originally an AMA sanctioned riding club, but was one of the first of the clubs kicked out of AMA, the "1%" of undesirables, according to the AMA honchos.  In 1946 The Outlaws had a big rally at Soldier Field in Chicago and the club began to grow.  Lots of surplus US Army Harleys and veterans wanting to ride spurred a spike in motorcycling after the war.

Early on, uniforms were of the 1940s western-influenced style with just a skull on the back of the shirt.  Apparently John was inspired by the BRMC jackets in The Wild One movie of 1953 and added the crossed pistons to the skull logo.

It was John Davis who was killed in the parking lot in Chicago during the power struggle with the Milwaukee Outlaws in the 1970s.

So, although the movie compressed time, left out some things, and changed others, John Davis, like Kathy, Benny, and other core characters are real people being portrayed in a Historical Fiction story.

[tazio]

Finally have seen it. I digged the old bikes, though most everything else about that lifestyle I've no use for.
Must have been tough/sad to see an idea turn into a runaway train as it morphed into something not intended.
That there was a parallel universe running where you could "meet the nicest people on a Honda" almost seems absurd. I'm definitely glad to see this movie get made. I enjoy learning all aspects of motorcycle history.

[rocker59]

Must have been tough/sad to see an idea turn into a runaway train as it morphed into something not intended.
 

After thinking about the various parts of the story's narrative, that's the real gut punch.  Johnny and Benny, and the other greasers, were being replaced with the hippie gangsters.  There was pressure to expand, and the more they expanded the worse it got.  The club that was started for the love of riding motorcycles to work all week, then racing scrambles on the weekend, was changing more and more, faster and faster, with no way to stop the runaway train. 

As I get older, I can totally relate to the sad feeling of time passing me by. 

The story wasn't a total downer.  Kathy won.  She got Benny, and they escaped to civilian life, living (mostly) happily ever after...

Kathy narrating the story from the perspective of a club member's wife was genius.  The holes in the story could remain holes, because the story was from her perspective and she couldn't know everything.  Club business is club business, and the wives/girlfriends don't know what they don't know.

[moto]

Seeing the movie has inspired me to do a little reading. 

As I understand it, John Davis is noted as founder of the McCook Outlaws, the core of the club being Electro-Motive employees.  The original riding club was formed in 1935, but languished until after WWII.  It was originally an AMA sanctioned riding club, but was one of the first of the clubs kicked out of AMA, the "1%" of undesirables, according to the AMA honchos.  In 1946 The Outlaws had a big rally at Soldier Field in Chicago and the club began to grow.  Lots of surplus US Army Harleys and veterans wanting to ride spurred a spike in motorcycling after the war.

Early on, uniforms were of the 1940s western-influenced style with just a skull on the back of the shirt.  Apparently John was inspired by the BRMC jackets in The Wild One movie of 1953 and added the crossed pistons to the skull logo.

It was John Davis who was killed in the parking lot in Chicago during the power struggle with the Milwaukee Outlaws in the 1970s.

So, although the movie compressed time, left out some things, and changed others, John Davis, like Kathy, Benny, and other core characters are real people being portrayed in a Historical Fiction story.

I was about to post my own historical revision, after googling and reading more.

In his own preface to his book, written between 1966 and 1968, Lyon distinguishes the McCook Outlaws from the Chicago Outlaws, as follows. "The oldest remembered outlaw club in the Midwest is the McCook Outlaws, which existed in the late thirties and disbanded in 1947, when most of its surviving members became policemen in Chicago and its suburbs. In the early fifties the Chicago Outlaws Motorcycle Club was formed by bikeriders who had been meeting informally on the west side of the city. In 1958 the president of the club, who is now a motorcycle racer, tried to change the group into a competition club that would require its members to race occasionally. Opposition developed among the membership and the club split, half the riders going with Johnny Davis, a transit truck driver. Johnny retained the club colors and is still the president of the Outlaws today." This squares pretty well with what the movie represented.

Some parties have their own interests in mythologizing the origins of the club. This includes the Outlaws themselves, who claim, contrary to Lyon's earlier statement, that they are descendants of the McCook Outlaws, and thereby claim they were founded in 1935 (http://www.outlawsmc.com/history.html). I tried to think of a historical source that might be more objective, and found the FBI's 1991 report on outlaw motorcycle gangs which stated that the Outlaws were "born" in Chicago in 1959 (https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/147691NCJRS.pdf). So I think Lyon's report is believable.

Your included photo is fascinating. This really must be Johnny Davis and his wife, shown as they were in 1965 (taking the date right off the license plate). The same couple appears in a photo in his scrapbook, shown on page 20 of Lyon's book. To me, he doesn't look old enough to have founded the Outlaws 30 years previously. I don't remember any reference to his wife being called "Gloria" in the movie, though his wife did appear in a scene where she reminded him to pick up some eggs (or bread?) while he was out. I wonder what the public address speaker is doing on Johnny's handlebars -- maybe it's there to address his club during picnics?!

I am now sure, like you, that the basic story being told was historical, a historical fiction. It's also a darn fine movie, and is on the list of the best movies so far of 2024 at the Washington Post (https://pb-impact.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/movies/2024/best-movies-2024/).

[Tkelly]

Maybe his wife wasn’t on the run where he gave Gloria a ride.

[rocker59]

Your included photo is fascinating. 

What caught my eye was the Laidlaw's license plate frame (they're a SoCal dealer), bolted to a full-dress 'glide, rather than a ratty chopper.

Historical fiction always gets inside my head, forcing me to search out the reality that the fiction is based on.  This movie really did it for me.  LOL!

[moto]

Maybe his wife wasn’t on the run where he gave Gloria a ride.

If that woman in the photo isn't his wife, and is also in his scrapbook, he's gonna have some 'splainin to do if his wife ever opens the scrapbook.