My, O! Lario!

[Dirk_S]

Figured I’d start a (most likely inconsistent) build/fix page for this Lario that I bought 2 weekends ago.

Pics of the bike upon purchase:




First classic Guzzi, third small block already, but amazing just how near in build it is to my 2016 V7 II that I just sold. Pleasantly surprised I won’t have to get rid of the gaskets, clutch, and other bits after all.

Bike runs (I test rode it); compression on the left read 100 psi, right 140 psi. Got the left up to 120 psi with a head retorque and valve adjustment. Linked rear/front brakes work, front right needs to be figured out. Couple of the switches aren’t too great. Rear shocks are bottoming out. I guess I could rebuild them, but I just bought some new YSS shocks. Forks compress well. Haven’t opened up the carbs yet. They’re attached to pod filters; not sure if I want to stick with them or not, seeing that I keep my bikes outside (I do plan to store this one in winter at least).

The odometer shows about 10,500 miles.

So—having read up on the top end’s tendency to implode if one looks at ‘em cross-eyed, and after finding the engine # PT 002801 is apparently before Guzzi began installing the updated cam, I decided to check out the internals. Tonight I popped off the right-hand side cylinder:




Piston—I ran my fingernail across the scoring on the piston; I could feel it, and it was slightly coarse, but it didn’t really snag. How bad is that?

Cylinder—both cylinders still have cross-hatching. Minor vertical marks, but nothing that I could really feel.

The RHS cam lobe did not seem damaged, but it was getting dark. Maybe I check tomorrow as well.

The camshaft is unfortunately 12mm width, not the 14mm upgrade.

So…<hands in pockets, looking down at the ground and kicking stones>… guess I look for a cam upgrade? Replace the springs and valves? I’d like to race this bike next year (crickets), so I’m not sure if I go the route of limiting the RPMs.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I had a Lario for a while, it wasn't a bad bike.
I only had one problem with the wiring there is a multi-pin Molex connector under the tank, the main 12Volt wire from battery to ignition switch became disconnected and the bike would stop dead then start again after a few minutes. I bypassed the connector with a Butt splice and it was good after that.
I hated the spring loaded side stand, it would drop the bike on the ground if you weren't careful.
There was a book written about the Lario "The perfect machine or something like that.

[faffi]

My brother had a 1986 Lario back in the early 90s, and rode it hard. He never had any issues with the valve train, but the pushrod worked its way through the clutch. The Lafranconis were LOUD, yet mellow. If that makes sense. I could hear him arriving 3 miles away.

[chuck peterson]

You are a brave man given the history of the Lario…good luck!

Paging the Aero Lario line mechanic…

[huub]

great little bike ! i did my daily commute on my lario today,
with a bunch of guzzi's in the shed it is my favorite.

now you have it opened up:
change exhaust valves and valve springs.
if you go racing , a camshaft with a little more overlap would help the stock camshaft was designed for the 2 valve engine .
the valve lift is ok with the stock camshaft ( actually too much , but that doesnt hurt.)
looking at the pic: one of the exhaust valves was getting hotter than the other.
check if the valve seats are still ok.

anyway congratulation with the buy!

[mechanicsavant]

Sounds like you’ll have plenty of time to perfect your safety wiring skills .

[Dirk_S]

Received an email response from Ed Milich after sharing the findings that I posted in this thread:

Oooof... Those bikes need everything completely gone through all valves And bearings replaced etc. etc. etc. to make them reliable. Especially for a race bike. Many thousands of dollars.

[faffi]

So it will be cheaper to fit a good 750 2-valve engine to it, then? Perhaps not quite as fast, but not terribly slower, either. Better grunt, less top-end. The 750 Targa was basically a Lario with a standard 750 engine.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Building a race engine is different than building an engine that you want to last.    It looks to me that you have a good pallet. Certainly cam, valves, springs and make sure there is no coil binding. Elephant foot adjusters. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Shirley  Martin will show up..

[Dirk_S]

If it helps for clarity, while I do intend to race, it wouldn’t be often—3-6 times at most a year, I imagine. I don’t expect to win because I don’t expect to “spend thousands and thousands” on it, but I will try to avoid holding up the next class race ;)

[Tkelly]

You will have the coolest bike in your class if not the fastest.

[chuck peterson]

You might want to check in with Chuck from Indiana…he has traveled your path before you if you don’t know 

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76906.0

[jacksonracingcomau]

I missed the pm while in Ireland ( on Guzzi  of course) so will keep all in this thread
To make reliable only bliueprinting and especially valve springs are needed, I’m away till mid September so have no parts to measure or old notes at hand but will happily work with you to source alternative springs (I used cali 1400 ones, doable again but a bit of faffing about). Mine hasn’t been apart since rebuild, faultlessly reliable but for oil soaked clutch (pushrod seal).
I have a reground cam to put in latest one but first one was from a heron head V7, makes peak power under 8 but barely drops off at 8750 (dyno sheet posted on here if you can find it, otherwise I’ll dig it up)
Regularly hits 9 as overev to avoid a gearchange before corner etc, doesn’t flinch at that.
So, asuming you can get one of them cheaply it would be an easy place to start, I’d happily ener mine at as it is but more power is always handy, any cam grinder could do same as my unyet tested new one.
Do reface the cam followers
New spec oe valves are lovely but I don’t think the originals would be a problem if sprung properly
Once they’ve been hammered , they are bin foddder
Rings are also available now , I had to machine grooves to accept rings from v65 as I could’t find Lario one at time
I think the elephant’s foot adjusters are worth the expense but you have to trim pushrods to fit
Be critical on pushrod tips too I have a couple that look like they’ll split from hammering

One major word of warning
Do not use a chemical cleaner to decarbon heads, I did and it pulled all the paint off the interior surfaces
I then found out they painted them because of porosity problems, annoying oil leaks ensue !
Tampons wedged between fins stop oil getting on your feet !

More as I think of it
MH

[Dirk_S]

Appreciate the responses so far.

Right now, since there doesn’t appear to be damage to the cam—well, not the RHS exhaust lobe, at least—I think I’ll tear down this valve train, do some measurements, and put it all back together to try and get some miles out of the bike before it gets cold. Then, while the bike’s chilling out in the basement (hey! I upgraded to an apartment with a basement! Which is good. Roommate probably wouldn’t be keen on kitchen/bathroom engine work, I surmise), I can replace stuff in time for next year.

Possibly a stupid question, but—whatever, no shame, here goes—if the camshaft was recalled, and my Lario didn’t go in for that service…would Guzzi honor that replacement today? Is there a grace period for that stuff?

And, is there a list of recalls/warranty repair/TSBs for the Lario posted somewhere? Cursory web research came up with nothing.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Appreciate the responses so far.

Right now, since there doesn’t appear to be damage to the cam—well, not the RHS exhaust lobe, at least—I think I’ll tear down this valve train, do some measurements, and put it all back together to try and get some miles out of the bike before it gets cold. Then, while the bike’s chilling out in the basement (hey! I upgraded to an apartment with a basement! Which is good. Roommate probably wouldn’t be keen on kitchen/bathroom engine work, I surmise), I can replace stuff in time for next year.

Possibly a stupid question, but—whatever, no shame, here goes—if the camshaft was recalled, and my Lario didn’t go in for that service…would Guzzi honor that replacement today? Is there a grace period for that stuff?

And, is there a list of recalls/warranty repair/TSBs for the Lario posted somewhere? Cursory web research came up with nothing.

Camshaft never recalled AFAIK
Also incredibly unlikely IMHE that yours in usable again without building up and regrinding, once hardening is gone, the game is over, red rover.
But if it is, just blueprint, no grey at all, all clearances, spring pressures etc etc
ABC , especially C