Bridgestone BT46 vs Michelin Road Classic

[Rocket Rod]

Bought the Jackal in August 2022 with 26K miles. The BT46 on the front was somewhat cupped and tended to follow longitudinal cracks to an annoying (sometimes pucker inducing) degree. Any patches in the pavement would feedback through the bars and slightly alter the intended line particularly in corners. Keeping the tire pressure at 36psi made it a little better. Put a new BT46 on in February 2023 and wore it down almost to the wear bars. It really wasn't any better, but I guess I got accustomed to it to some  extent. Last month I ordered a Michelin Road Classic and while Seneca Suzuki was  mounting and balancing it I checked the head bearings and forks for any play thinking that might explain the poor tire performance. I couldn't find anything wrong (that's not definitive by any means) with the front end. The Michelin is so much better it's like having power steering. My confidence is restored, which means I should probably check myself.

Anyway, I just don't get it. Any thoughts?

[Joliet Jim]

I had Battlax on my 02 Stone once upon a time and didn't like the way they wore. Currently a Michelin commander on the front and a Metzler 880 that won't die on the rear. I think my favorite on the front was an Avon Roadrunner.

[kingoffleece]

I have the Classics on my Jackal.  Regularly run The Apache Trail-google it-one of the twistiest roads here, or anywhere.  Tires are fine.  38/38psi.

[Mr Revhead]

I've run several sets of bt45s on my 03 EV and had been very happy. So was kinda excited to try the new bt46s.

What a disappointment.

Half the KMs on the rear I used to get from the 45s. And the front isn't far behind. Only managed about 3500kms

Even on my more sedately ridden and far less loaded T5 its worn out in 7000kms

I'll be avoiding them from now on
I won't be going near bt46s again

[faffi]

In my experience, Bridgestones (I call them Bridgerocks) give me a wooden feel, making it almost impossible to read the grip level. I have used BT001, BT012, BT016, BT020 and BT032, plus BT45, and did not like either. Yet testers and many riders rave about them, so I presume it is about riding style and personal preferences.

Cupping: If a tire is cupping, your damping rates does not match that of your spring rate. IIRC, if the tire is low at the end of the pattern and raised at the next block of pattern, your rebound is too soft. If it is the other way around, rebound is too firm. If the fork oil is 10k miles old or more, it is almost certainly too soft in the damping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8QpBt90ZaM

[jackthebiker]

I put BT45s on a Triumph T100 a few years ago, and BT46s on my RE 650 INT this spring. I liked the feel and look of them, but they wear fast. Avon Roadriders or Michelin Road Classics have worked much better for me. About twice the wear.

[Kev m]

I'm a Neanderthal who can probably make due on anything black and round.

In the almost decade I had a Jackal I ran, like I do on most bikes, whatever I felt I could get the most miles on. Back then it was Metzelers (an old favorite on mine for Harleys) - I think all Marathons - first an 88 and later an 880 as that tire debuted.

I replaced the Jackal a decade ago with it's smaller twin that Guzzi was kind enough to build for me visually repeating almost every cue I'd changed visually on the Jackal. However the smaller, lighter bike (V7) w/ cast wheels used different sizes and I tried different tires.

After using the now defunct Michelin Pilot Activ I moved over to the Road Classic and I've been quite happy with it.

As a matter of fact I'm supposed to pick up one today that was mounted on the rear wheel for the second V7 yesterday.

Enough stick for getting frisky, decent enough in the rain, and long life. Works for me.


PS - used the Battleax on my Breva1100 and wasn't impressed.

[Vagrant]

I have done 200,000 miles on 98 & 01 EV's. Personally, I think both of those tires are junk! The last three sets of tires I ran were Bridgestone A411 radials. They last way longer, handle much better. Just try them once.

[Kev m]

The last three sets of tires I ran were Bridgestone A411 radials. They last way longer, handle much better. Just try them once.

I have never in my life had a radial outlast a bias ply, especially a touring compound one.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of mileage are you talking on the A411's?

I start my acceptable rear tire range at 10k, but generally hope for at least a few thousand more.

[rocker59]

I really loved the Pilot Activ on my Bassa.  Good handling and feel.  They were a peg dragging good time!  It was really disappointing to see them gone from the lineup when I needed tires for my recently purchased EVT.

The Road Classic looked good, so I grabbed a pair.  I don't love the Road Classics' feel as much as I did the Pilot Activ, but I can say the Road Classics are fantastic in rain.  They cut right through standing water on the interstate.   I think part of the difference in feel is the flatter profile of the rear tire, and it may have something to do with the EVT running a 150 as opposed to the Bassa running a 140.  The Road Classic just doesn't "feel" as sporty.  They seem like good tires, though.

[Rocket Rod]

Cupping: If a tire is cupping, your damping rates does not match that of your spring rate. IIRC, if the tire is low at the end of the pattern and raised at the next block of pattern, your rebound is too soft. If it is the other way around, rebound is too firm. If the fork oil is 10k miles old or more, it is almost certainly too soft in the damping.

That tracks with my suspicion that the damping of my front forks was too soft. I intend to do some fork maintenance later this year to address that.

Meanwhile I'm jacked at how well it handles now with the Michelin and I think I'll replace the rear with the same in a month or so.

[Vagrant]

I have never in my life had a radial outlast a bias ply, especially a touring compound one.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of mileage are you talking on the A411's?

I start my acceptable rear tire range at 10k, but generally hope for at least a few thousand more.

Kev, the mileage you get where you live and ride is twice what I get here in N/E Ga. That's  why I state 50% more on radials than bias. For instance, on the stock rear on the  15, & 17 v7I & III v7's the rear lasted 3500 miles here. The A41 rear goes 7500 miles and the old Conti Road attack III almost hit 9000.
To eack there own.

[elrealistico]

I ended up with the BT46 on the EV when I changed them earlier this year. Was a matter of availability, couldnt get much else in the rear size. They have been fine so far, but I don't think they will last more than 5-6K miles or so. The V7III RA3 rear is more than halfway done at 6K miles, probably make it to 8 or 9, if I really cheap out 10. Will probably go with A41 for the V7 and maybe the Michelin classic for the EV Or A41, depends on what can be got when I am ready to buy. That's been a big factor for me over the years, I don't stockpile extra tyres

[Kev m]

Kev, the mileage you get where you live and ride is twice what I get here in N/E Ga. That's  why I state 50% more on radials than bias. For instance, on the stock rear on the  15, & 17 v7I & III v7's the rear lasted 3500 miles here. The A41 rear goes 7500 miles and the old Conti Road attack III almost hit 9000.
To eack there own.

Sure I get how ambient conditions change mileage and how you would expect fewer miles where you are vs where I am. However it remains surprising the opposite relative results. I.E. how radials last you longer when bias last me longer.

Maybe the issue is limited sample size comparing a particularly soft/sticky stock bias tire to a radial that's harder/longer lived. At the end of the day I would expect tire material to be a bigger determining factor. It's just that in my case radials have always come in more sporting applications where you might expect a softer compound.

Anyway, in contrast I've managed ~7k on the rear bias ply OEM Sport Demon's on both our V7s.

I've gotten ~11k on the rear bias ply Michelin Pilot Activ and expect more on the Road Classics.

I don't think I've ever made it to 10k on a radial on anything... but I can't say specifically about the V7 since I've never run a radial on them for lack of need/desire.

[Vagrant]

I ended up with the BT46 on the EV when I changed them earlier this year. Was a matter of availability, couldnt get much else in the rear size. They have been fine so far, but I don't think they will last more than 5-6K miles or so. The V7III RA3 rear is more than halfway done at 6K miles, probably make it to 8 or 9, if I really cheap out 10. Will probably go with A41 for the V7 and maybe the Michelin classic for the EV Or A41, depends on what can be got when I am ready to buy. That's been a big factor for me over the years, I don't stockpile extra tyres

I keep a full set for each bike on the shelf at all times. I usually can do it when the rebates are on in the early spring. Then again I go through six tires a year between 4-5 bikes.

[faffi]

Sure I get how ambient conditions change mileage and how you would expect fewer miles where you are vs where I am. However it remains surprising the opposite relative results. I.E. how radials last you longer when bias last me longer.


Anyway, in contrast I've managed ~7k on the rear bias ply OEM Sport Demon's on both our V7s.

I've gotten ~11k on the rear bias ply Michelin Pilot Activ and expect more on the Road Classics.

I don't think I've ever made it to 10k on a radial on anything... but I can't say specifically about the V7 since I've never run a radial on them for lack of need/desire.

I typically get around 5k from bias ply rear tires, give or take. The stock Demon sport lasted 4600 miles, the front 6800 miles on my Roamer. On my Vulcan 800A, both tires wore out in 5k miles. The Pilot Active lasted around 5k on the rear and the front around 6k on my KZ650. Radials, OTOH, have lasted 6 to 9k on the rear, and a bit more on the front, but not enough longer to prevent both to be replaced at the same time.

[Kev m]

I typically get around 5k from bias ply rear tires, give or take. The stock Demon sport lasted 4600 miles, the front 6800 miles on my Roamer. On my Vulcan 800A, both tires wore out in 5k miles. The Pilot Active lasted around 5k on the rear and the front around 6k on my KZ650. Radials, OTOH, have lasted 6 to 9k on the rear, and a bit more on the front, but not enough longer to prevent both to be replaced at the same time.

Interesting. Tell me more about the brands and tires.

The bias plys I've run over the years on 6 Harleys, 3 Guzzis, 2 BMW (airheads), and a few JAPanInc products were usually: Dunlop, Metzeler, or Michelin either touring or classic tread patterns.

I'm almost certain the Sport Demons were the ones that lasted the fewest miles, but even they lasted 7k on the rear. As I've said 10k is my min for a rear and I want more like 15k+ for a front, which is the only reason I changed them.

The radials were on 1 Guzzi (CARC), 1 BMW (Oilhead), 1 Buell, and our current Ducati. I don't remember all the brands, though I know there were Metzelers and Pirellis, and I forgot what BMW installed new. Not a single one ever made the 10k mark on the rear, even the one I put on the Breva 1100 which I was really looking for something to last. Though I think most lasted at least 5-6k so almost as long as the Sport Demons.

I find it interesting that both you and Vag seem to have radials that last the same as my experience, but bias plys that don't come even close. I wonder if it's simple tire differences or if there is something else at play. The similar radial experience makes me think tire but who knows.

[faffi]

Radials have been Michelin PR 3, PR4 and PR5, and Conti Road Attack 3 (they wore a little quicker) and Bridgeston BT016 BT020, and Metzeler Z8.

Bias ply have been Michelin Pilot Active, A49, M48, M45, Heidenau K60 and K34 (last a looooong time, potentially 30k) and K36 (gone in 3k miles), Pirelli Phantom Comp 28+ (gone in 2k miles), Mitas 07, Metzeler ME33, 55, 77, 99, Avon Elan II (no grip in the wet, but ultra-long life) and lots have have forgotten about over the past 45 years.