Any Dellorto PHM 40 experts here...? Diagram parts list needed

[radguzzi]

The recently acquired LeMans IV 1000 that I brought home has the Dellorto 40 mm PHM carbs and they came to me already apart.  The seller had disassembled the carbs, ultrasonically cleaned them, tried to inventory what he might have needed for parts and then put all the bits into individual left and right side containers.

Well, normally, I enjoy rebuilding carbs, mostly VHB and PHB models but in that I did not take these down so I am more than a little bit intimidated by the thought of going through these two and doing the rebuild correctly.  They are in pieces

I did find a good resource for parts and limited diagram literature to use as a guide to assembly with dellortoshop.com but again, assembling these in the same manner in which they were assembled and so that they work correctly is going to be a task for me.  I wish that had come to me fully assembled...! 
 
I'll get them all sorted out and see what I need for replacement parts, if anything.

Plus, I have this Diagram that I cannot find the Parts List details to, anywhere.  If someone here has a link to find said Parts List, I would appreciate it...  If I'm ever going to try to rebuild these, I will need the parts list.

So, Any carb rebuilders here...?

Thanks
rad

[guzzisteve]

You need a parts book? Is that what you're looking for? Part #'s

[radguzzi]

You need a parts book? Is that what you're looking for? Part #'s

Yessir... That will give me at least a prayer for rebuilding these two...  I would actually like to have someone experienced in the PHMs to go through them.  Failing that, I'll do it.

Thanks,
Rob

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Maybe something here? https://www.thisoldtractor.com/dellorto.html

[guzzisteve]

I have catalog #11 & 15 for PHM & PHF either one carries both. Herdan is where I got my books & parts when it was the norm

[guzziart]

I have catalog #11 & 15 for PHM & PHF either one carries both. Herdan is where I got my books & parts when it was the norm

Herdan Corporation
43 Penn St
Port Clinton, PA 19549
610-562-3155
Fax:610-562-0062
support@herdan.com

[radguzzi]

Maybe something here? https://www.thisoldtractor.com/dellorto.html

I did not find a parts list however, there is plenty of good info on many carbs and their parts, atomizers, Accelerator pumps, Power jet circuit, Spray nozzles etc.

Thanks Charlie

Herdan Corporation
43 Penn St
Port Clinton, PA 19549
610-562-3155
Fax:610-562-0062
support@herdan.com

Great, I was going to ask guzzisteve for the contact info, no internet presence for Herdan, huh...? 

I'll give them a call.

Thanks all.
I guess I'm going in...! 

[guzzisteve]

Try this-------------

https://herdancorp.com/

If the carbs are stock like in the bike was new, there is a bracket on the side w/rod& tube w/a spring. You need to delete this Item and make sure you have a spring in the throttle slide. Just something you modified right away cause your grip gets to be too much. It may be gone already but that thing is confusing to be deleted. There is a good pic of it in the 1000 LeMans 4 supplement , it also shows the lever w/o the arrangement.

Page 257-----------------

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_lemans-1000_en.pdf

[guzzisteve]

Sent you a PM w/Catalog pics, hope it worked.  What you need.

[radguzzi]

Sent you a PM w/Catalog pics, hope it worked.  What you need.

Got it, thank you.  I need to use that list to identify the stuff that I am unsure of.  I am not new to carbs but these are a different animal.

And I find no evidence of the rod, tube and spring so that must have already been modified.  The slide does have a spring.

I have the supplement for some odd reason, prolly due to being a Tech Manual collector. 

I appreciate you,
Rob

[Frenchfrog]

The PHM's come in several flavors :
- flat top or the dome top with a crank lever as in the drawing
-Dome top types can either have an internal  cable connecting the lever to the slide or a rod link .
This importer for dellorto in the UK has got good photos of the various parts here https://www.dellorto.co.uk/product-category/dellorto-motorcycle-carburettors-parts/carburettor-parts/phm-parts/
-The dome tops give a really heavy pull so many convert them to flat top

[guzzisteve]

Got it, thank you.  I need to use that list to identify the stuff that I am unsure of.  I am not new to carbs but these are a different animal.

And I find no evidence of the rod, tube and spring so that must have already been modified.  The slide does have a spring.

I have the supplement for some odd reason, prolly due to being a Tech Manual collector. 

I appreciate you,
Rob

This is the same place as Herdan Corp----------------------------

https://www.hermys.com/

[radguzzi]

The PHM's come in several flavors :
- flat top or the dome top with a crank lever as in the drawing
-Dome top types can either have an internal  cable connecting the lever to the slide or a rod link .
This importer for dellorto in the UK has got good photos of the various parts here https://www.dellorto.co.uk/product-category/dellorto-motorcycle-carburettors-parts/carburettor-parts/phm-parts/
-The dome tops give a really heavy pull so many convert them to flat top

That is good to know that the tops can be changed that easily.  I recall the'89 LeMans V was a wrist breaker and that too had the domed tops. The flat tops sound like the cure.

Thanks,
rad




 

[moto-uno]

  There's also a lighter spring available that eases the wrist exercise , I have them on mine ( the joys of being 6 dozen plus 1 years old  ) .

[guzziart]

That is good to know that the tops can be changed that easily.  I recall the'89 LeMans V was a wrist breaker and that too had the domed tops. The flat tops sound like the cure.

Thanks,
rad

Yeah, I've got the bellcrank set up on my '87, over time I got used to it, never thought about changing any of it, I like the way it looks too. 

[radguzzi]

 There is a good pic of it in the 1000 LeMans 4 supplement , it also shows the lever w/o the arrangement.

Looking at that detail and the specs for jetting I found it interesting that the Main Jet size is listed as 145 and the Idle Jet at 57...

Mine, as found are 150 Main and 62 Idle.

I also would prefer to use pod filters vs the stock airbox, any thoughts there...?

Thanks,
rad

[Frenchfrog]

I'd keep the airbox and then stick an A/f sensor on ....
Original jetting might be ok for many but I've done A/f testing on mine ( 36 mm dells LM medium valve engine with a P3 cam ) and have ended up with different jetting from standard.

[radguzzi]

Try this-------------

https://herdancorp.com/

If the carbs are stock like in the bike was new, there is a bracket on the side w/rod& tube w/a spring. You need to delete this Item and make sure you have a spring in the throttle slide. Just something you modified right away cause your grip gets to be too much. It may be gone already but that thing is confusing to be deleted. There is a good pic of it in the 1000 LeMans 4 supplement , it also shows the lever w/o the arrangement.

Page 257-----------------

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_lemans-1000_en.pdf

Steve,
In eliminating the rod and spring set up, will I need different throttle cables as well...?  I assume the cable will attach at the #23 lever...?  (circled)

I also do not find a Part Number for the spring that would go In with the slide.

I brought this LeMans home with the carbs already off and disassembled so I am struggling here. 

Thanks very much,
Rob







 

[guzzisteve]

You can just delete the rod set-up & spring, same cable works. You do need to have springs in the slide, I think there is some kind of rod set-up in there also, can't remember. Maybe a small length cable. It is like that photo unless changed already. The bigger jetting is normal for EPA help out. Check your mixture screw for tip and numbers on atomizer, needles. They had a EURO version for jutting which is a tad on rich side. Also I would put 60/3 slides in instead of the 50/5 stock.
I can send you the set-up I used with good results if you want.

[73 sport]

     Greg Benders' "This OldTractor" has illustrations and parts list with stock numbers for PHM 40 carbs.

[wirespokes]

Did you get them back together?

It took me some research and experimenting to find the right combination of jets resulting in good economy and performance.

Also, there's no need to bin the lever tops - a nice light throttle pull is possible with them. Also, either slide will work 50/5 or 60/3. They just need jetting adjusted appropriately.

[radguzzi]

I appreciate you guys.
Thanks,
rad__

You can just delete the rod set-up & spring, same cable works. You do need to have springs in the slide, I think there is some kind of rod set-up in there also, can't remember. Maybe a small length cable. It is like that photo unless changed already. The bigger jetting is normal for EPA help out. Check your mixture screw for tip and numbers on atomizer, needles. They had a EURO version for jutting which is a tad on rich side. Also I would put 60/3 slides in instead of the 50/5 stock.

I can send you the set-up I used with good results if you want.

Copy all, I brought the carbs up to a friend with a great, long time running shop, who knows the carbs from the BMW R90S, he says.  We talked about the rod linkage and spring set up and the need for the internal spring.  I also forwarded all the info from you guys to him to source parts and assembly, he does not seem concerned. I'll ask him to check on the slide numbers, I did not make note of them.  

Thanks, Steve.
Rob

Did you get them back together? 
It took me some research and experimenting to find the right combination of jets resulting in good economy and performance. 
Also, there's no need to bin the lever tops - a nice light throttle pull is possible with them. 

Not yet, in the works.  Needing a few items, I brought the carb kits up with the carbs to Micah (shop buddy)   I recall the '89 LeMans V that I ought new had a pretty rugged throttle but not a wrist breaker.

Thanks,
Rob 

     

Greg Benders' "This OldTractor" has illustrations and parts list with stock numbers for PHM 40 carbs.

Copy that.  I sent that along with the carbs for Micah to use. 

Oh, now that I think about there is plastic block in the shape of the choke inlet area, only one.  What is the use here and which carb should it go on...?

Thanks again...








Thanks,
Rob 

[Frenchfrog]

that block allows the choke to clear the throttle levers with the dome tops.
If your going flat top I don't think you need it

[radguzzi]

that block allows the choke to clear the throttle levers with the dome tops.
If your going flat top I don't think you need it

Gotcha, so again, just one side...?   And does that mean that the block will need two (2) gaskets...? 

Thanks much.
rad__

[Frenchfrog]

can't remember which side   ...I guess two gaskets would be best.
I got rid of my crank tops as they were so stiff...would love to learn how to reduce that  Wirespokes !!!!